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fabioportieri |
o/ |
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| 11:27 |
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fabioportieri |
having forgotten user and pass for netbeans, i wonder how the hell i unsuscribe from their mailing list :| |
| 11:31 |
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pdurbin |
sounds like I shouldn't sign up |
| 11:31 |
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pdurbin |
though I do use netbeans every day |
| 11:32 |
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fabioportieri |
i'm not using it anymore so it's just spam to me :/ |
| 11:32 |
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fabioportieri |
"Sorry, we didn't find anyone with that name or email address." .. and yet you forward tons of mail to that mail address.. |
| 11:44 |
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fabioportieri |
bleargh,, doing frontend on ie9- in quirks mode with layout table-based |
| 11:44 |
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fabioportieri |
fuck this shit |
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| 14:31 |
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sfisque |
looks like java8 went GA this morning |
| 14:33 |
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tjsnell |
so about 2 years for your typical corporate shop to think about using it? |
| 14:42 |
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| 14:49 |
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acuzio |
about right tjsnell |
| 14:55 |
|
sfisque |
i dunno. the releases are spacing out too far now. 1.6 hit EoL not long after 1.7 went GA. it used to be you could be about 1-2 behind and still inside the EoL window |
| 14:56 |
|
sfisque |
but with slower release cycles, that |
| 14:56 |
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sfisque |
's not so real of a use case |
| 14:56 |
|
sfisque |
especially in sectors with SLA and legal requirements |
| 15:00 |
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| 15:06 |
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pdurbin |
is there a download like for the GA yet? |
| 15:06 |
|
pdurbin |
s/like/link/ (sorry) |
| 15:07 |
|
sfisque |
probably. i saw the "advert" for it in the oracle tech link email i get |
| 15:07 |
|
sfisque |
javaeebot lucky java 8 se release download |
| 15:07 |
|
javaeebot |
sfisque: https://jdk8.java.net/download.html |
| 15:08 |
|
sfisque |
https://blogs.oracle.com/java/entry/java_se_8_schedule |
| 15:08 |
|
sfisque |
3/18 is today |
| 15:08 |
|
sfisque |
so i'd assume a link will appear sometime before CoB |
| 15:11 |
|
pdurbin |
yeah |
| 15:18 |
|
sfisque |
anyone here have exp with blade servers? |
| 15:23 |
|
acuzio |
what sort of blade servers? i.e. which manufacturers? |
| 15:24 |
|
sfisque |
just a general question about the architecture |
| 15:24 |
|
acuzio |
well yes - we have blade servers for our some of our PROD services and i commissioned them |
| 15:24 |
|
acuzio |
So yes i have some exp with them |
| 15:25 |
|
sfisque |
basically, if i were to acquire a blade chassis, and populate it with 1 or more blades, do i need to run something proprietary at the chassis level, or could it run some OS like solaris or redhat and then do virtualization on top of that? |
| 15:26 |
|
sfisque |
i've seen something referenced called esx1 with some chassis |
| 15:26 |
|
acuzio |
ESXi |
| 15:26 |
|
sfisque |
yah that |
| 15:26 |
|
acuzio |
Thats VMWare ., |
| 15:26 |
|
acuzio |
Blade Chassis --> Blade Server --> (any O.S) |
| 15:26 |
|
sfisque |
so does that run native on the chassis or on top of some OS that the chassis runs |
| 15:27 |
|
acuzio |
Chassis is just an enclosure |
| 15:27 |
|
sfisque |
right but each blade hardware-wise is a full machine |
| 15:27 |
|
acuzio |
yup |
| 15:27 |
|
sfisque |
so where does the virtualization happen |
| 15:27 |
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acuzio |
On the Blade - |
| 15:28 |
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acuzio |
The idea is to minimise Server rackspace |
| 15:28 |
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sfisque |
oh. so i couldnt combine 2 blades to make a "fat server"? i can only slice up a single blade into several servers. |
| 15:28 |
|
sfisque |
aye i understand the abstract idea. just no exp with the implementation details |
| 15:28 |
|
sfisque |
what you say makes sense. i'm just trying ot get hard facts versus just assuming stuff |
| 15:29 |
|
sfisque |
because this purchase would be large compared to my previous servers (2x opteron builds) |
| 15:29 |
|
acuzio |
I dont understand what you mean by "fat server" |
| 15:29 |
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sfisque |
combine 2 blades (with say, 12 cores each) into a 24 core server |
| 15:29 |
|
sfisque |
single instance |
| 15:29 |
|
sfisque |
withou having to use something like beowulf |
| 15:30 |
|
acuzio |
No no - its not like that - the "combining" will have to be done via external clustering. |
| 15:30 |
|
sfisque |
slicing up blades into individual machines is fine. i'm just trying to see what is possible vs what i can envision |
| 15:31 |
|
sfisque |
and understand what i have to invest in. if the chassis only provides power, and each blade is just a machine being powered by the chassis, then that's good. i can grok that model |
| 15:32 |
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acuzio |
Thats exactly the model, essentially each blade housed in a chassis is its own Server that can run variety of O.S's . We have instances where we run Solaris, Linux and VMWare ESXi. |
| 15:32 |
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sfisque |
the real question will be then is finding a combination of hardware that runs solaris / slackware / virtualbox |
| 15:32 |
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acuzio |
Why virtualbox? |
| 15:32 |
|
sfisque |
well, solaris / virtualbox because VB will run slackware |
| 15:32 |
|
sfisque |
F R E E |
| 15:33 |
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acuzio |
No no - virtualbox requires an underlying O.S to run |
| 15:33 |
|
sfisque |
right |
| 15:33 |
|
sfisque |
and |
| 15:33 |
|
tjsnell |
fsvo free |
| 15:33 |
|
sfisque |
... |
| 15:33 |
|
acuzio |
You cannot run VirtualBox ontop of a "empty" blade server. |
| 15:33 |
|
acuzio |
You can run Xen or VMWare on top of it.- |
| 15:34 |
|
acuzio |
So in your case the options are Solaris/Slackware/Xen/VMWare |
| 15:34 |
|
sfisque |
that's what i was getting at. so i cannot run solaris on a blade, and run VB on top of that and slcie up the blade? |
| 15:34 |
|
acuzio |
Ok - stop. you are conflating 2 different things. |
| 15:36 |
|
acuzio |
a_ A Blade can run virtually any O.S (within reason) b_ If you want to virtualize something why not run a hypervisor like VMWare ESXi (Free) or Xen on the Blade server and "slice" up the blade that way |
| 15:37 |
|
acuzio |
Does that make sense ? |
| 15:37 |
|
sfisque |
how is the documentation on esxi or xen. i've got over 1/2 a decade of VB experience. it does. i'm just trying to translate what i do now onto this new hardware model to see if it would be feasible and financially worthy |
| 15:38 |
|
acuzio |
Running an O.S simply to run VB on top of it is sub-optimal. |
| 15:38 |
|
sfisque |
right now i run 4 core servers with solaris, virtualizing slackware/windows on top via VB |
| 15:38 |
|
sfisque |
well except i get the full management of an OS underneath rather than whatever this visor gives me |
| 15:39 |
|
sfisque |
so optimal is subjective here |
| 15:39 |
|
acuzio |
Ok - if thats what you think. |
| 15:39 |
|
sfisque |
well, does esxi give me everything solaris does for managing processes and tuning the underlying hardware? |
| 15:40 |
|
sfisque |
i mean if it does thats great, but i do not assume it does |
| 15:40 |
|
acuzio |
VMWare and Xen are industry proven , the documentation is extensive and its extremely light-touch. Both are essentially linux underneath , so yes they do provide facilities to manage processes and tune the underlying hardware - in fact thats exactly what they provide |
| 15:41 |
|
sfisque |
ok |
| 15:41 |
|
acuzio |
Entire companies have been built to service exactly that niche .- This is not a new problem |
| 15:42 |
|
sfisque |
aye, but keep in mind i'm a hobbyist, i'm not going to throw thousands or millions of $$ at this. i built my current cloud stack for about $1k each machine, which allows me to stuff 8 running machines into 8u (with handfuls offline and swappable) |
| 15:43 |
|
acuzio |
Your outlay is a lot higher than what i have. |
| 15:43 |
|
sfisque |
i have a 40u rack i bought for $50 some years ago. :-D i'm a CL whore :P |
| 15:44 |
|
acuzio |
Here is what i have in my shed - A HP N40L 4 bay machine , running ESXi, A 32 Gig 8-core Opteron machine , also running ESXi. I virtualize Windows 7, ArchLinux and Solaris 11. And there are a few that are there for backup/restore/testing etc. |
| 15:45 |
|
acuzio |
And my total outlay is significantly less than 1K per machine |
| 15:45 |
|
sfisque |
8 core opteron for less than 1k? |
| 15:45 |
|
sfisque |
with drives and everything? |
| 15:46 |
|
sfisque |
rack mount |
| 15:46 |
|
sfisque |
or do you have it in a cheapy case |
| 15:46 |
|
acuzio |
Its a cheapy case |
| 15:46 |
|
sfisque |
ah |
| 15:46 |
|
sfisque |
RM cases start around 200 for a decent one |
| 15:46 |
|
acuzio |
its not rack mounted or anything like that - its sitting quietly in the shed and i access it from everywhere i am |
| 15:46 |
|
sfisque |
aye |
| 15:46 |
|
acuzio |
I know RM cases are expensive |
| 15:47 |
|
acuzio |
When i built this ., virtualization on X86 was just picking up |
| 15:47 |
|
sfisque |
so back to chassis. ibm is offering a free chassis. i'm looking at what the blades for it cost. |
| 15:47 |
|
sfisque |
i've been virtualizing since the early 90's :P |
| 15:47 |
|
sfisque |
ran softAT on my macintosh quadra 700 back then |
| 15:48 |
|
sfisque |
soft pc on my powrbook 1400 |
| 15:48 |
|
acuzio |
I have no idea what those things are - i was in school sans any computers |
| 15:48 |
|
acuzio |
FWIW , our office has everything virtualized. |
| 15:49 |
|
sfisque |
softAT was pretty much the first "retail" virtualization available. let you run dos/windows on a macintosh (emulated a 80286) |
| 15:49 |
|
acuzio |
i.e. even our desktop environments are virtual |
| 15:49 |
|
sfisque |
nifty |
| 15:50 |
|
sfisque |
but based on this info (thank acuzio) i may take ibm up on their offer. have to see what the pricing for blades will run if i do get the free chassis |
| 15:52 |
|
acuzio |
We do have Fibre Optics cable to desk - so network I/O is unbelievably fast, |
| 15:53 |
|
acuzio |
No worries hope it helps - I can recommend IBM chassis though - very well made |
| 15:53 |
|
sfisque |
they have a special for first timers. free chassis in the "flex system" line |
| 15:54 |
|
sfisque |
holy crap. ethernet switches for chassis are spendy. 3-30k |
| 15:54 |
|
acuzio |
The Blade route is more enterprise, Data Center stuff - rather than the keep in shed stuff |
| 15:55 |
|
sfisque |
aye. i'm just looking for more density. i can always just build out some newer opteron servers with 6x or 8x core procs |
| 15:55 |
|
sfisque |
i just figured, hey, FREE CHASSIS. i'll talke a look |
| 15:55 |
|
sfisque |
***take |
| 16:03 |
|
sfisque |
bleh nm. the low end compute nodes for that chassis start around 4.5k. i can build several rackmounts at that price and continue doing solaris/VB slicing |
| 16:04 |
|
CJ_ |
sfisque, What do you do? |
| 16:04 |
|
sfisque |
i save enterprise projects :P |
| 16:04 |
|
sfisque |
rescue |
| 16:04 |
|
sfisque |
as well as a hobbyist |
| 16:05 |
|
CJ_ |
Just wondered why you were looking into IBM blade servers. I know some people over there. |
| 16:05 |
|
sfisque |
the ad for a "free chassis" piqued my interest |
| 16:05 |
|
sfisque |
i'm looking at upgrading my current private cloud |
| 16:05 |
|
sfisque |
and figured, it was worth looking into |
| 16:06 |
|
sfisque |
i'll probably do what i did previously. build out some machines using previous generation hardware. surplus pricing is primo for enterprise gear |
| 16:07 |
|
sfisque |
figure a couple 2 or 4 proc opteron boards with some 8k or 4k procs for density |
| 16:10 |
|
sfisque |
you'd be surprised how many enterprise projects are live with teams that don't have release planning strategies, source control processes, or a decent understanding of the EE platform. |
| 16:11 |
|
sfisque |
i'd say for every 1 project that is decently staffed/equipped/defined, there might be 10 or more that are in "bad shape" |
| 16:12 |
|
sfisque |
this channel is essentially a think-tank compared to most of the places i've cruised through |
| 16:12 |
|
sfisque |
which is nice :-D |
| 16:13 |
|
CJ_ |
sfisque, I was planning on buying some surplus gear but then I ran into FB-DIMMs. :( |
| 16:13 |
|
CJ_ |
And I'm fully aware of the bad shape projects. I've only seen one that's decent. |
| 16:14 |
|
sfisque |
i havent had to buy fb-dimms yet. but i'm sure that time is coming |
| 16:15 |
|
whartung |
why host those things on your infrastructure sfisque -- why not punt to an external provider/ |
| 16:15 |
|
whartung |
? |
| 16:15 |
|
sfisque |
trust |
| 16:16 |
|
sfisque |
i worked in security products some years ago. i dont trust anyone to run my email or my cloud |
| 16:16 |
|
whartung |
you must have a decent internet connection at your house |
| 16:16 |
|
sfisque |
i do |
| 16:16 |
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| 16:16 |
|
sfisque |
commercial grade cable modem service with 5 static ips |
| 16:16 |
|
sfisque |
they dont have fibre yet in my hood |
| 16:16 |
|
whartung |
what does that run you per month? |
| 16:16 |
|
sfisque |
about 85$ |
| 16:17 |
|
whartung |
that's not bad |
| 16:17 |
|
whartung |
I don't have a machine room inmy house tho |
| 16:17 |
|
sfisque |
nope. i wanted 3 ip's, but 5 was the next step |
| 16:18 |
|
sfisque |
i dont anymore. i used to rent 2 br minimum back in the day. 1 room for office/machine room. now the "machine room" is a 40u rack in the "studio/office" i share with the wife |
| 16:18 |
|
whartung |
sound hot and noisy |
| 16:18 |
|
sfisque |
other than the hum of the fans, it's pretty quiet actually |
| 16:19 |
|
whartung |
in todays world of silent pcs, fan hum starts to qualify as "noisy" |
| 16:19 |
|
whartung |
and most rack grade machines aren't know for low noise |
| 16:19 |
|
sfisque |
aye but i dont work in there. i work in the livingroom. |
| 16:19 |
|
whartung |
since they have ltitle fans |
| 16:19 |
|
CJ_ |
sfisque, The problem wasn't buying them. They're cheap. The problem is the power consumption. |
| 16:19 |
|
sfisque |
the rack is downstairs |
| 16:20 |
|
sfisque |
ah |
| 16:20 |
|
whartung |
yea that too |
| 16:20 |
|
whartung |
I'm always borderlne on getting a mac mini hosted out There at some colo |
| 16:21 |
|
sfisque |
the neat thing is, during the winter the rack keeps the office warm. in the summer, the office keeps the rack cool (since it's 1/2 underground. good heat sink) |
| 16:22 |
|
whartung |
so how is your hawaiian gig going? |
| 16:22 |
|
firebird1 |
i got only NPE for bean injectioin |
| 16:27 |
|
sfisque |
whartung well enough. it's "interesting". targeting an EE container but i cannot leverage any ejb or cmp and i have to avoid heavy use of primefaces, even though it's a mandated library for the project. very "odd" setup |
| 16:27 |
|
whartung |
huh |
| 16:27 |
|
sfisque |
yeah |
| 16:28 |
|
sfisque |
basically |
| 16:28 |
|
sfisque |
… yeah... |
| 16:56 |
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| 18:18 |
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firebird1 |
what do u mean by scope in spring ? |
| 18:18 |
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firebird1 |
javaeebot lucky what do u mean by scope in spring |
| 18:18 |
|
javaeebot |
firebird1: http://docs.spring.io/spring/docs/3.0.0.M3/reference/html/ch04s04.html |
| 18:22 |
|
semiosis |
that page seems to explain it pretty well! |
| 19:11 |
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