| Time |
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| 15:33 |
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acuzio |
hey Naros |
| 15:33 |
|
Naros |
Harro |
| 15:33 |
|
acuzio |
Silly season is starting |
| 15:34 |
|
Naros |
? |
| 15:34 |
|
acuzio |
Xmas is coming |
| 15:35 |
|
acuzio |
You cant move anywhere without hearing the wrectched carols |
| 15:35 |
|
acuzio |
wretched even |
| 15:36 |
|
acuzio |
I hate them carols |
| 15:37 |
|
Naros |
lol dont be a scrooge |
| 16:10 |
|
acuzio |
Naros: Its everywhere |
| 16:11 |
|
acuzio |
I dont mind the festivities as such but the music is terrible - terrible |
| 16:12 |
|
Naros |
:P |
| 16:12 |
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acuzio |
And you cannot walk anywhere without hearing them all the time |
| 16:20 |
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| 16:41 |
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| 16:42 |
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sfisque |
yeah, it's annoying how the christians have co-opted a perfectly good pagan holiday :P |
| 16:57 |
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| 16:59 |
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| 17:36 |
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| 18:03 |
|
semiosis |
i would recommend against trying to submit a javafx app to the mac app store |
| 18:04 |
|
semiosis |
don't believe all those articles from oracle saying you can do it |
| 18:04 |
|
whartung |
were you rejected? |
| 18:04 |
|
semiosis |
apple changed their requirements and I doubt it's possible right now for a javafx native app bundle to be approved |
| 18:04 |
|
whartung |
what did they change? |
| 18:05 |
|
semiosis |
whartung: the native app bundle includes a full jre, which includes compatibility with the quicktime api, which means (even if you dont use quicktime in your app) that apple will automatically & categorically reject your app for using quicktime apis |
| 18:05 |
|
whartung |
apple is deprecating quicktime? |
| 18:06 |
|
semiosis |
the javafx native build tools also don't support app sandboxing/entitlements, but that is easy enough to work around with a text editor & mac cli tools |
| 18:06 |
|
semiosis |
so thats just an inconvenience, not a blocker, though it only took me half a day to figure out how to do it :/ |
| 18:06 |
|
whartung |
yea |
| 18:06 |
|
semiosis |
Deprecated API Usage - Apple no longer accepts submissions of apps that use QuickTime APIs. |
| 18:07 |
|
semiosis |
that is verbatim from the automated review email from apple |
| 18:07 |
|
sfisque |
i'm guessing you have to touch QT through some new cocoa lib |
| 18:07 |
|
whartung |
so by "quicktime api" you mean the C/C++ based API vs a Cocoa one |
| 18:07 |
|
semiosis |
idk wtf they mean |
| 18:08 |
|
whartung |
heh |
| 18:08 |
|
semiosis |
as far as I know my app doesnt use QT at all |
| 18:08 |
|
whartung |
yea |
| 18:08 |
|
semiosis |
but somewhere in the jre there must be calls to QT |
| 18:08 |
|
whartung |
I'd grouse about it, perhaps they'll allow an exception for Java apps |
| 18:08 |
|
whartung |
apple tends to be pendant, but flexible sometimes |
| 18:08 |
|
semiosis |
thats a good idea |
| 18:09 |
|
semiosis |
thx |
| 18:11 |
|
whartung |
http://forum.unity3d.com/threads/215385-Heads-up-Unity-mac-store-rejection-Unity-Deprecated-API-Usage-QuickTime |
| 18:11 |
|
whartung |
so you're not alone |
| 18:12 |
|
whartung |
how do you like java fx? |
| 18:14 |
|
semiosis |
maybe if i remove the webcam lib for the mac build... |
| 18:14 |
|
whartung |
:) |
| 18:14 |
|
semiosis |
<3 javafx |
| 18:14 |
|
whartung |
what kind of app is it? |
| 18:15 |
|
sfisque |
i'm guessing it's probably bundled in with imageio libs |
| 18:15 |
|
sfisque |
the qt bindings |
| 18:15 |
|
whartung |
I would think so |
| 18:15 |
|
semiosis |
uploader |
| 18:15 |
|
semiosis |
sends photos/videos to our api |
| 18:15 |
|
sfisque |
quicktime is used for image/video codec support and conversion |
| 18:15 |
|
sfisque |
bingo |
| 18:15 |
|
semiosis |
using imageio to show a thumb of the photo |
| 18:16 |
|
whartung |
so you may actually be using QT, vs just suffering from having it bundled with the JRE |
| 18:16 |
|
semiosis |
also using webcam-capture to read QR codes with a webcam, but that doesnt work on mac because of some other bugs in the jdk |
| 18:16 |
|
semiosis |
something about awt & javafx being mutually exclusive on mac |
| 18:16 |
|
semiosis |
maybe |
| 18:16 |
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| 18:18 |
|
semiosis |
thx for the ideas |
| 18:18 |
|
whartung |
si |
| 18:18 |
|
sfisque |
np. in a past life, i wrote mac native apps, so i know a little bit about the underlying libs |
| 18:20 |
|
whartung |
I love it when iChat (ICHAT!!!) beach balls...wtf |
| 18:21 |
|
sfisque |
yeah. it has contention with browser based chats. i noticed that if i have FB or GM in a browser tab, it will do that |
| 18:21 |
|
sfisque |
i'm guessing ichat and FF (other browsers?) are fighting over some lib that is not thread safe |
| 18:21 |
|
sfisque |
or has a bad contention point |
| 18:24 |
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| 18:26 |
|
whartung |
yea, sharing a network interface is Hard(™) |
| 18:31 |
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| 18:31 |
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| 18:34 |
|
semiosis |
uploading with all webcam stuff removed. then going to try disabling the imageio/thumbnail features. finally going to upload a blank javafx app. determined to get to the bottom of this |
| 18:36 |
|
whartung |
*shakes fist* |
| 18:36 |
|
whartung |
power to the people! |
| 18:41 |
|
sfisque |
and people wonder why i have an android phone. i love my macbook and every single mac i've had previously (probably well over 15 apple machines) but i won't commit to a closed ecosystem |
| 18:41 |
|
semiosis |
java >>> obj-c |
| 18:42 |
|
sfisque |
i'm sure o-c is a fine language, but i'm too invested in java, but either way, you can still write native apps for andoid in any language that will compile to binary via the NDK |
| 18:43 |
|
sfisque |
without jailbreaking |
| 18:43 |
|
whartung |
obj-c is pretty neat |
| 18:57 |
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| 19:06 |
|
pdurbin |
you guys are all having fun talking about programming and I'm stuck at home talking to plumbers >:( |
| 19:12 |
|
whartung |
plumbers are looooow on the fun scale |
| 19:32 |
|
semiosis |
blank app rejected for quicktime use |
| 19:32 |
|
whartung |
sweet |
| 19:32 |
|
whartung |
+1 on quick turn around! :) |
| 19:33 |
|
semiosis |
i knew this would happen, i shouldn't have even wasted time submitting without webcam, then without imageio, then without title bar icon, .... |
| 19:33 |
|
semiosis |
they couldn't have been executing the app |
| 19:33 |
|
semiosis |
just doing static analysis |
| 19:33 |
|
semiosis |
so they wouldn't even know if my code was calling QT from webcam or imageio |
| 19:34 |
|
semiosis |
maybe down the road, but not at this state |
| 19:34 |
|
semiosis |
stage |
| 19:34 |
|
semiosis |
time to open a case with apple |
| 19:35 |
|
whartung |
right |
| 19:41 |
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| 19:51 |
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| 20:57 |
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| 21:23 |
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| 22:11 |
|
* semiosis |
wonders if recompiling the jre without QT would be feasible |
| 22:13 |
|
pdurbin |
semiosis: bummer about your app. did you look into http://cordova.apache.org ? |
| 22:14 |
|
semiosis |
i've played with cordova/phonegap, but this is a desktop app |
| 22:15 |
|
semiosis |
we already have native android/ios apps that dont use cordova. wanted to complement those with a desktop app, and javafx seemed like a good choice. it still is, despite this hurdle with the mac app store. |
| 22:16 |
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| 22:16 |
|
whartung |
it would be curious about rebuilding the JRE semiosis |
| 22:17 |
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| 22:17 |
|
whartung |
how good is their build. |
| 22:17 |
|
whartung |
for example |
| 22:17 |
|
semiosis |
their? whose? i'm using oracle jdk7u45 |
| 22:17 |
|
sfisque |
yah apple doesnt provide a "mobile" jvm |
| 22:17 |
|
sfisque |
ios == java GTFO |
| 22:18 |
|
* sfisque |
gives the finger to ios |
| 22:18 |
|
semiosis |
to be clear, this isn't a mobile app |
| 22:18 |
|
sfisque |
oh, you're targeting macosx desktop? |
| 22:18 |
|
semiosis |
yes |
| 22:18 |
|
semiosis |
and the app is solid & awesome |
| 22:18 |
|
sfisque |
screw the apple store then |
| 22:18 |
|
semiosis |
right |
| 22:18 |
|
sfisque |
F THEM |
| 22:19 |
|
* sfisque |
flips the bird at the apple store |
| 22:19 |
|
semiosis |
already spent the $100 to join the mac dev program, only to find out they categorically reject apps bundling the jre |
| 22:19 |
|
semiosis |
well, javafx apps at least |
| 22:27 |
|
whartung |
no, it's just for whatever reason, once a project reaches a certain size, I have less confidence in them if *I* build them. |
| 22:27 |
|
whartung |
GF is one of them, the JRE would certainly be one of them |
| 22:27 |
|
semiosis |
true |
| 22:27 |
|
whartung |
but I bet it would not be super awful to try and build the JRE and remove the QT dependency (and see if your code still works of course :) ) |
| 22:28 |
|
sfisque |
i'm guessing he'd jsut need an OS version of imageio that does not use QT codecs on macosx |
| 22:28 |
|
sfisque |
i can't think of whatelse QT would be doing |
| 22:29 |
|
semiosis |
sfisque: apple rejected even a blank app which didnt do *anything* |
| 22:29 |
|
sfisque |
aye |
| 22:31 |
|
sfisque |
ok. looks like imageio is still a javax. i was thinking it might have been folded into 7, but apparently not. i was assuming it was "IN" the jdk regardless of whether you're consuming it |
| 22:31 |
|
sfisque |
but that theory is bunked |
| 22:31 |
|
whartung |
well even more curious |
| 22:31 |
|
whartung |
here's a question |
| 22:31 |
|
sfisque |
awt |
| 22:31 |
|
whartung |
is the JRE statically linking to QT? |
| 22:31 |
|
whartung |
if not, what if you just yanked out "qt.so" or whatever |
| 22:31 |
|
sfisque |
i bet there are QT linkages in the native peering of awt |
| 22:32 |
|
semiosis |
thought about trying to delete dylibs from the jre but that seems even more foolish than trying to build a jre without them |
| 22:33 |
|
whartung |
yea, but it cheap to test |
| 22:33 |
|
semiosis |
hmm |
| 22:33 |
|
sfisque |
does your app use any awt concrete classes or just interfaces via swing/jfx |
| 22:35 |
|
sfisque |
or maybe build openjdk and bundle that |
| 22:35 |
|
semiosis |
no awt |
| 22:35 |
|
sfisque |
or sue apple for crippling ios and not bundling java on it |
| 22:35 |
|
sfisque |
:P |
| 22:35 |
|
semiosis |
the webcam-capture lib uses awt, but there's a bug on mac which prevents awt & javafx from playing well together, hence no webcam support on mac |
| 22:35 |
|
sfisque |
yeah mixing swing and awt is ….. interesting... |
| 22:36 |
|
semiosis |
works fine on linux & windows tho |
| 22:36 |
|
sfisque |
not surprised on linux because there are no "native peers". everytyhing is provided by Xlibs |
| 22:36 |
|
sfisque |
windows suprises me |
| 22:37 |
|
semiosis |
i hope jdk8 clears up these issues :/ |
| 22:39 |
|
sfisque |
it's disheartening how apple is making the same mistakes m$ did. dominate a market, and then screw it up with being proprietary |
| 22:40 |
|
sfisque |
moving to bsd was a long overdue move, but now this whole ios crap is just freakishly annoying |
| 22:42 |
|
whartung |
it's a double edged sword. |
| 22:42 |
|
semiosis |
again, this isn't an ios issue... |
| 22:42 |
|
whartung |
the apple stuff doesn't bother me. the iOS stuff. |
| 22:42 |
|
semiosis |
but yeah they're doing to desktop mac os x what they've done to ios |
| 22:43 |
|
whartung |
basically, people can't be trusted with computers :) |
| 22:43 |
|
sfisque |
aye. i bundle it in because it's "app store" related, rather than truly a problem with the desktop |
| 22:44 |
|
sfisque |
because you wouldnt need to bundle the jvm if the target os had java pre-installed |
| 22:44 |
|
whartung |
regarding the qt thing, who knows when apple actually deprecated it -- it could have been 2 years ago |
| 22:44 |
|
sfisque |
qt itself isnt deprecated. i'm guessing something IN the jvm is using methods that are deprecated |
| 22:44 |
|
semiosis |
actually recently, i found a blog about it from last month |
| 22:44 |
|
whartung |
no, the C/C++ interface to QT is deprecated |
| 22:45 |
|
whartung |
and who knows when they did that |
| 22:45 |
|
sfisque |
probably years ago |
| 22:45 |
|
whartung |
but at least they DO deprecate stuff -- and now they're enforcing it. |
| 22:45 |
|
sfisque |
when they went "OjbC" all the way, man |
| 22:45 |
|
semiosis |
http://www.philiphodgetts.com/2013/11/quicktime-is-deprecated-what-does-that-mean-in-practice/ |
| 22:45 |
|
whartung |
they're not Obj-C all the way -- they have a crap load of C++ |
| 22:46 |
|
sfisque |
ah, so they've introduced new libs. man it's been a whle since dove into mac native dev. my knowledge has become obsolete |
| 22:47 |
|
whartung |
yea, it's not like apple said "sorry, no more video for you!" |
| 22:47 |
|
whartung |
"write your own mpeg decoder!" |
| 22:47 |
|
sfisque |
more like, download one of the 1003942342s of codecs available :P |
| 22:47 |
|
whartung |
there is some serious high tech stuff in the apple runtime. |
| 22:47 |
|
sfisque |
always has been |
| 22:48 |
|
whartung |
the new OS powers off between mouse clicks :) or something lol |
| 22:48 |
|
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yue_ joined ##javaee |
| 22:48 |
|
sfisque |
apple was bundling tcpip long before windows. remember "trumpet windsock" |
| 22:49 |
|
sfisque |
i guess quicktime is joining it's other "early tech" brethren (hypercard, opendoc, etc.) in the attic |
| 22:49 |
|
whartung |
it's joing the "20 years ago QT was cool, now it's obsolete, so we're rewriting it" |
| 22:52 |
|
sfisque |
aye |
| 22:53 |
|
whartung |
To me, its simple. I'll use Mac OS until the day Apple decides to completely jump the shark and lock it down in to an obsidian colored slab. Then I'll just put linux on it and move on. |
| 22:53 |
|
sfisque |
lolz |
| 22:53 |
|
yue_ |
hi |
| 22:53 |
|
sfisque |
you know you can install solaris on a macbook :PO |
| 22:54 |
|
sfisque |
:P |
| 22:54 |
|
whartung |
nice |
| 22:54 |
|
whartung |
I have no idea the state of "solaris" nowadays. |
| 22:54 |
|
sfisque |
11 is pretty damn nice |
| 22:54 |
|
sfisque |
way more bsd-like |
| 22:54 |
|
sfisque |
less sysV like |
| 22:55 |
|
sfisque |
more xml config vs. archaic flatfiles scattered through the system |
| 22:55 |
|
yue_ |
what is going on ? |
| 22:55 |
|
sfisque |
just jabbering about stuffs |
| 22:57 |
|
whartung |
so we talking Oracle Solaris or OpenIndianaSolarisSauce or whatever it is |
| 22:59 |
|
yue_ |
how to know how many request can server can process at a time ? |
| 22:59 |
|
whartung |
throw requests at it. When it starts to boil stop and count them |
| 22:59 |
|
semiosis |
jmeter? |
| 23:06 |
|
sfisque |
when you say "server" what do you mean? servlet container? ejb container processing RMI/EJB requests? |
| 23:06 |
|
sfisque |
depends on how many threads you have listening for requests to process |
| 23:07 |
|
whartung |
depends on all sorts of things |
| 23:07 |
|
whartung |
as my Mac JVM v Linux JVM anecdote revealed |
| 23:07 |
|
yue_ |
Is server a container ? |
| 23:07 |
|
sfisque |
can be |
| 23:08 |
|
whartung |
the word "server" is heavily overloaded |
| 23:08 |
|
whartung |
so you have to be specific |
| 23:08 |
|
sfisque |
^^^ exactly |
| 23:08 |
|
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