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pdurbin |
google java ee |
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pdurbin |
hmm, well, I'm glad there was no money on the line: http://irclog.greptilian.com/sourcefu/2013-10-04#i_27393 |
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semiosis |
javaeebot: version |
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javaeebot |
semiosis: An error has occurred and has been logged. Please contact this bot's administrator for more information. |
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pdurbin |
semiosis: you troublemaker |
| 01:11 |
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semiosis |
apparently i can't help myself |
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acuzio |
I want to do a certification in JavaEE , Quest which one is good for it |
| 10:53 |
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Fubar^ |
Why do you want a certification? Are there companies that actually care about that? |
| 11:16 |
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tjsnell |
cause he's a clueless twit |
| 11:16 |
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tjsnell |
just like all my other friends! |
| 12:38 |
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| 13:05 |
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pdurbin |
Last week in "Coding Java EE 7: Making Easy Even Easier [CON4456]" at JavaOne ( https://oracleus.activeevents.com/2013/connect/sessionDetail.ww?SESSION_ID=4456 ) Adam Bien ( http://adam-bien.com ) argued that JSF is great for "enterprise" internal applications that don't need to be pretty, that don't need to be pixel perfect. For consumer apps, he likes the idea of exposing everything via an API and using |
| 13:05 |
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pdurbin |
something like http://angularjs.org to build the front end. |
| 13:05 |
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pdurbin |
any thoughts on this? |
| 13:16 |
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tjsnell |
the latter is dead don |
| 13:16 |
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pdurbin |
heh. dead don? |
| 13:16 |
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tjsnell |
my default these days is angularjs on the front end |
| 13:16 |
|
tjsnell |
s/don/on/ |
| 13:18 |
|
pdurbin |
tjsnell: what do you make of "building our corporate web site in angular was a mistake. search engines can't crawl it because they don't execute javascript like browsers do" -- http://irclog.perlgeek.de/crimsonfu/2013-09-12#i_7575339 |
| 13:19 |
|
tjsnell |
depends on how you build it |
| 13:19 |
|
tjsnell |
http://www.yearofmoo.com/2012/11/angularjs-and-seo.html |
| 13:20 |
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pdurbin |
hmm. "Luckily there is a way to get around this and to have full SEO support for your AngularJS application by using some special URL routing and a headless browser to retrieve the HTML for you" |
| 13:21 |
|
tjsnell |
I'm not sure I'd use it for more static pages but I don't do those :) |
| 13:21 |
|
pdurbin |
demo app at http://yearofmoo-articles.github.com/angularjs-seo-article/ via https://github.com/yearofmoo-articles/AngularJS-SEO-Article |
| 13:22 |
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acuzio |
who is calling me a twit ? |
| 13:22 |
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tjsnell |
me! |
| 13:22 |
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acuzio |
tjsnell: come on choose your weapon ? |
| 13:23 |
|
tjsnell |
half my brain |
| 13:23 |
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acuzio |
What good is that ., can it give me a J2EE certification |
| 13:23 |
|
tjsnell |
yep |
| 13:23 |
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acuzio |
prove it |
| 13:24 |
|
* tjsnell |
hands acuzio a J2EE Certification |
| 13:24 |
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tjsnell |
endorsed by me |
| 13:24 |
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acuzio |
is it signed by Quest ? |
| 13:24 |
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acuzio |
if not - its no use |
| 13:25 |
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acuzio |
hey what mod gave tjsnell the + |
| 13:25 |
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tjsnell |
I've always had that |
| 13:25 |
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tjsnell |
not sure why : |
| 13:26 |
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acuzio |
ops - can someone remove the + from tjsnell ., he is causing trouble as usual |
| 13:27 |
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acuzio |
wearing 1 lens is wierd |
| 13:27 |
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acuzio |
hey tjsnell did you configure your 8 tomcat servers ? |
| 13:28 |
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tjsnell |
all at once with chef |
| 13:29 |
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acuzio |
are they handling 16000 threads ? |
| 13:30 |
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acuzio |
come on - |
| 13:31 |
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acuzio |
they are not - admit it |
| 13:32 |
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tjsnell |
have you seen my hardware!? |
| 13:32 |
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Fubar^ |
Is that a euphemism? |
| 13:33 |
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acuzio |
dear god - tjsnell I didnt think we shared that sort of relationship |
| 13:33 |
|
tjsnell |
not yet! |
| 13:33 |
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acuzio |
never |
| 13:34 |
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acuzio |
my heart and mind is full of the 16,000 threads |
| 13:38 |
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acuzio |
Fubar^: how come you are an Op ? |
| 13:40 |
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tjsnell |
who? |
| 13:40 |
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tjsnell |
I'm not |
| 13:40 |
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tjsnell |
I just have the voiced flag set |
| 13:41 |
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acuzio |
course you are not , this is a channel for serious J2EE professionals - we do not want trouble makers like you here |
| 13:42 |
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acuzio |
what did you think this was # java |
| 13:43 |
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| 13:46 |
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Fubar^ |
acuzio: Quest gave it to me :) |
| 13:47 |
|
Fubar^ |
I think he was happy with me for helping him fix a problem |
| 13:49 |
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tjsnell |
he'll get mad and take it away at some point :) |
| 13:53 |
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acuzio |
Fubar^: you fixed a problem - did you tell him to use ed |
| 14:00 |
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| 14:09 |
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Fubar^ |
acuzio: I have never seen ed fix any kind of problem :) |
| 14:10 |
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Quest |
ed? |
| 14:10 |
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pdurbin |
javaeebot: lucky ed editor |
| 14:10 |
|
javaeebot |
pdurbin: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ed_(text_editor) |
| 14:12 |
|
pdurbin |
correction, the Adam Bien talk was Demystifying Java EE [CON2231] https://oracleus.activeevents.com/2013/connect/sessionDetail.ww?SESSION_ID=2231 |
| 14:13 |
|
pdurbin |
per my notes: http://irclog.greptilian.com/javaee/2013-09-23#i_24721 |
| 14:14 |
|
Fubar^ |
I saw him do a talk like that last year on devoxx |
| 14:15 |
|
Fubar^ |
Was he giving away t-shirts for questions this time? :) |
| 14:15 |
|
Quest |
hm |
| 14:17 |
|
pdurbin |
yep. better to give them out than carry them on the plane again, he said |
| 14:47 |
|
acuzio |
Fubar^: you heretic - Ed fixes everything |
| 14:47 |
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acuzio |
all the time ] |
| 14:48 |
|
acuzio |
Quest: try ed |
| 14:49 |
|
Quest |
hm |
| 14:50 |
|
sfisque1 |
bah "ed". i use piped echoes through sed / grep / awk fragments. ed is for the weak |
| 14:51 |
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acuzio |
sfisque1: i like you |
| 14:51 |
|
acuzio |
i think you are ready to take on tjsnell ., |
| 14:51 |
|
acuzio |
I am making a coalition of the damned to petition the ops to kick tjsnell |
| 14:52 |
|
Quest |
acuzio, why do you dislike tjsnell ? :) |
| 14:52 |
|
tjsnell |
we're ex lovers and he's still bitter |
| 14:52 |
|
tjsnell |
I left him for ron |
| 14:52 |
|
acuzio |
and tjsnell stinks |
| 14:53 |
|
Quest |
gays? |
| 14:53 |
|
acuzio |
we are of the gay |
| 14:53 |
|
tjsnell |
happy |
| 14:53 |
|
* Quest |
runs |
| 14:53 |
|
tjsnell |
homophobe |
| 14:53 |
|
acuzio |
he wants the D |
| 14:55 |
|
sfisque |
pulls out a bag of confetti and throws it in the air, while handing out martinis |
| 14:56 |
|
* sfisque |
realizes he forgot to type /me |
| 14:56 |
|
acuzio |
sfisque: thanks - but tjsnell has left me - he also stinks |
| 14:57 |
|
sfisque |
i was just celebrating that we have more out "queer" members of this channel :-) |
| 14:58 |
|
acuzio |
sfisque: tjsnell is queer i am just a whore |
| 14:58 |
|
acuzio |
I take whatever i can get |
| 14:59 |
|
sfisque |
ROFL |
| 14:59 |
|
acuzio |
Quest is probably upset |
| 14:59 |
|
sfisque |
i'd be a whore, but since i don't take money, i'm just a slut :P |
| 14:59 |
|
acuzio |
sfisque: bang |
| 14:59 |
|
Naros |
>.> |
| 15:00 |
|
* Naros |
likes confetti. Is it New Years? |
| 15:00 |
|
sfisque |
if( person.takesMoney() ) { person.setOrientation( Orientation.WHORE ) } else { person.setOrientation( Orientation.SLUT ) ; } |
| 15:00 |
|
* sfisque |
throws more confetti at naros |
| 15:01 |
|
Naros |
Or is it my birthday :3 |
| 15:01 |
|
acuzio |
No we are celebrating tjsnell's queerness and my whoreness |
| 15:01 |
|
acuzio |
Quest is all upset as well |
| 15:01 |
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Naros |
queerness = awesomeness :D |
| 15:01 |
|
sfisque |
me, Q will get over it |
| 15:02 |
|
sfisque |
***meh |
| 15:02 |
|
acuzio |
Naros: personally , queerness is same ol same ol - they have all the same problems as the non-queer folks - |
| 15:02 |
|
sfisque |
anywho, i have an interesting question that, though i could spend the time experimenting, i'm hoping someone just "knows" it, because i cannot find documentation about it. |
| 15:02 |
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acuzio |
whats the question ? |
| 15:03 |
|
acuzio |
Why does tjsnell stink ? |
| 15:03 |
|
acuzio |
the answer is cause he can |
| 15:03 |
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Naros |
acuzio: touche. just glad I'm not alone :P |
| 15:03 |
|
tjsnell |
I shower at least once a week |
| 15:03 |
|
sfisque |
in GF: what is the precedence of deployment context between, the context input in the deployment webpage, the context in context.xml, the context in web.xml, and the context in glassfish-web.xml |
| 15:03 |
|
acuzio |
sfisque: this is the precise reason why i dont use java Web apps |
| 15:03 |
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Naros |
that's a lot of contexts :3 |
| 15:04 |
|
sfisque |
right |
| 15:04 |
|
acuzio |
sfisque: or make one either |
| 15:04 |
|
* Naros |
receives a "context overflow." |
| 15:04 |
|
acuzio |
sfisque: the whole thing is so fucking over complicated - you would die by the time you can get something to work |
| 15:04 |
|
sfisque |
well, i'm just wondering, because based on the spec, you can specify the deployment context in several areas, so there HAS to be a preceddence |
| 15:04 |
|
sfisque |
but i cannot find that precedence documented |
| 15:05 |
|
acuzio |
sfisque: my point is why the fuck should i care ., or what does it matter - why is this even a fucking option |
| 15:05 |
|
sfisque |
and i'm pretty good at google too |
| 15:05 |
|
pdurbin |
sfisque: someone in #glassfish might know |
| 15:05 |
|
sfisque |
bah, we're better than them |
| 15:05 |
|
* sfisque |
looks around carefully |
| 15:05 |
|
sfisque |
:P |
| 15:05 |
|
* pdurbin |
eyes whartung |
| 15:05 |
|
acuzio |
sfisque: ask in ##java few bods there workon glassfish |
| 15:06 |
|
sfisque |
why, so i can get banned there? -_- |
| 15:06 |
|
sfisque |
>.< |
| 15:06 |
|
Naros |
off the cuff I'd expect context.xml, web.xml, deployment webpage , glassfish-web.xml |
| 15:06 |
|
sfisque |
high -> low or low -> high |
| 15:06 |
|
Naros |
high -> low |
| 15:07 |
|
Naros |
which i think is almost close to that of tomcat :P |
| 15:07 |
|
sfisque |
i'd be surprised if the deploy page was THAT low. the deployment agent should have highest precedence |
| 15:07 |
|
sfisque |
but that's assuming |
| 15:07 |
|
Naros |
perhaps |
| 15:07 |
|
sfisque |
hence why my question. i'd rather know than assume |
| 15:07 |
|
Naros |
can u not test it? |
| 15:08 |
|
sfisque |
i can, i'm being lazy because i am surrounded by other smart people here :-) |
| 15:08 |
|
tjsnell |
cheeser was a glassfish dev at Sun/Oracle for many years |
| 15:08 |
|
acuzio |
sfisque: ^^ |
| 15:10 |
|
acuzio |
dreamreal is still banned here ? |
| 15:10 |
|
sfisque |
so i think i might be able to "piece it together". looks like the context-root element in glassfiwh-web.xml overrides the value in web.xml/application.xml |
| 15:10 |
|
sfisque |
so thats part of the puzzle |
| 15:10 |
|
* sfisque |
dives back into google |
| 15:11 |
|
sfisque |
so, so far, high -> low we have glassfish-web.xml -> web.xml |
| 15:11 |
|
acuzio |
fuck me - no wonder ., its such a fucking pain |
| 15:11 |
|
sfisque |
well, admittedly, acusio, what i'm asking is a pretty niche issue. most devs would/should NOT be specifying the context. that's a deployment detail |
| 15:12 |
|
acuzio |
sfisque: no most devs do not do Java Web apps - there is a reason for that |
| 15:12 |
|
sfisque |
but someone here committed a change to glassfish-web.xml and i'm exploring if i should revert it or leave it |
| 15:13 |
|
* sfisque |
throws acuzio a troll-biscuit…. here feed on that... |
| 15:14 |
|
acuzio |
sfisque: no - ask around |
| 15:15 |
|
sfisque |
umm… acuzio java web apps are alive and well. what's changing is the delivery mech. instead of JSF/struts/Springmvc, we're seeing more REST endpoints (in java) exposed to javascript (angular, etc.) |
| 15:15 |
|
sfisque |
they're still web apps |
| 15:15 |
|
sfisque |
and they're still java on the back end |
| 15:17 |
|
pdurbin |
yep |
| 15:21 |
|
acuzio |
sfisque: dude ., please tell me you are not comparing that with web.xml, context.xml and the rest of that malarkey |
| 15:23 |
|
acuzio |
they are so different and far apart they are not even playing the same fucking game |
| 15:25 |
|
sfisque |
even rest endpoints are deployed at a "context". if you think you're not talking to a servlet registered at a context when you make a REST call (assuming java on the back end and not php, .net, etc.) you need to dig a little |
| 15:25 |
|
acuzio |
yes yes i know that |
| 15:25 |
|
acuzio |
are you being dense on purpose or has the Questness affected you ? |
| 15:25 |
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sfisque |
so you still have a context descriptor somewhere in play (and possibly several) |
| 15:26 |
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acuzio |
Ok - i know you know that i know |
| 15:26 |
|
acuzio |
lets leave it at that |
| 15:26 |
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sfisque |
:-). back to the point. if no one KNOWS, then i must dig, because i must KNOW. |
| 15:28 |
|
pdurbin |
sfisque: I did drop a link in #glassfish for you: http://www.evanchooly.com/logs/%2523glassfish/2013-10-04 |
| 15:29 |
|
sfisque |
master of the obvious? ojacobson |
| 15:29 |
|
sfisque |
yup, that's definitely what that question's about |
| 15:29 |
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pdurbin |
heh |
| 15:30 |
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sfisque |
and TY pd |
| 15:33 |
|
pdurbin |
sfisque: when in doubt about glassfish, I tweet at https://twitter.com/arungupta |
| 15:34 |
|
sfisque |
aye. arguably, though, there SHOULD be a spec that indicates the precedence so that container builders can adhere to it |
| 15:35 |
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pdurbin |
agreed. he might know where it's documented |
| 15:39 |
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acuzio |
pdurbin: arungupta is with Glassfish now ? - he was the main Jersey guy if i remember correctly |
| 15:42 |
|
pdurbin |
yep |
| 15:42 |
|
acuzio |
bad documentation but good examples |
| 15:43 |
|
acuzio |
i will always take that |
| 15:45 |
|
pdurbin |
good examples at https://github.com/arun-gupta/javaee7-samples |
| 15:55 |
|
whartung |
what are kiddies babbling about? |
| 15:56 |
|
pdurbin |
whartung: save us! |
| 16:04 |
|
whartung |
so what's this context nonsense, what are you talking about? |
| 16:04 |
|
pdurbin |
sfisque: want to try again? |
| 16:05 |
|
pdurbin |
whartung: "in GF: what is the precedence of deployment context between, the context input in the deployment webpage, the context in context.xml, the context in web.xml, and the context in glassfish-web.xml" |
| 16:05 |
|
whartung |
there is not context.xml, that artifact from tomcat is gone as I understand it. |
| 16:06 |
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sfisque |
ok. that still leaves web.xml , [appserver-specific-descripter].xml and deployment web page (for containers that have that) |
| 16:06 |
|
whartung |
other than that, in order of highest to lowest, it's deploy page/command -> glassfish-web -> web.xml. In fact, the context is not specified in the web.xml, I don't believe. |
| 16:07 |
|
whartung |
its the name of the artifact |
| 16:07 |
|
sfisque |
i think some containers might "still" listen for a "param" that indicates the desired deployment context |
| 16:07 |
|
sfisque |
i know tomcat did "back in the day" but that might also be "gone" |
| 16:08 |
|
whartung |
but I don't think GF does |
| 16:08 |
|
sfisque |
aye. ok. as long as the deployer gets final say, i'm ok with the change the dev made |
| 16:08 |
|
sfisque |
i just wanted to make sure he did not unleash a deployment nightmare on us (our production deployers are a little…… lacking) |
| 16:10 |
|
whartung |
web.xml is specified by the standard, though there is also "default-web.xml" which defines stuff "for free" (like JSP mappings). The container-web.xml is the containers specific "here's how we do stuff" XML file, under their control. |
| 16:11 |
|
sfisque |
aye |
| 16:11 |
|
sfisque |
like jboss-web.xml, glassfish-web.xml, etc |
| 16:11 |
|
whartung |
right |
| 16:12 |
|
whartung |
web.xml defines the apps relationship with a "standard" container, which is "underspecified" for the real world. app-web.xml is the relationship between the container and the standard that fills that gap. |
| 16:14 |
|
sfisque |
aye. i'm aware of all these. i was just curious if there was a documented precedence and waht it was |
| 16:14 |
|
sfisque |
because i could not find it explicitly described anywhere |
| 16:14 |
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whartung |
yea, I can't point to a document |
| 16:15 |
|
whartung |
it's more experience and common sense |
| 16:16 |
|
sfisque |
aye. worse case i could have created a trivial webapp and experimented but i was hoping to shortcut and delegate to my smarty collegues here :-) |
| 16:17 |
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whartung |
:) |
| 17:48 |
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| 19:34 |
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| 20:18 |
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pdurbin |
wow, I went to 28 talks: http://wiki.greptilian.com/java/javaone/2013 |
| 21:18 |
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| 21:24 |
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whartung |
yea you were busy pdurbin |
| 21:25 |
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whartung |
that was great. Thanks again for sharing that all with us. |
| 21:34 |
|
mikeit |
hi all |
| 21:38 |
|
mikeit |
hi |
| 21:40 |
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whartung |
hi mikeit |
| 21:41 |
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| 22:10 |
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| 22:30 |
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pdurbin |
whartung: sure. hopefully I'll add some mini-reviews like I did at http://wiki.greptilian.com/java/javaone/2012 |
| 22:32 |
|
whartung |
I wonder if they're bundling that new http client in to java 8 |
| 22:42 |
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pdurbin |
buh. not sure |
| 22:44 |
|
pdurbin |
Reducing Boilerplate Code with Project Lombok - http://projectlombok.org |
| 22:44 |
|
pdurbin |
via https://plus.google.com/109145929828138109979/posts/GLZParymJYg |
| 22:45 |
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whartung |
yea, lombok is love hate. |
| 22:52 |
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| 22:57 |
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pdurbin |
whartung: oh? you've tried it? |
| 22:57 |
|
whartung |
no, I have not tried it. |
| 23:03 |
|
pdurbin |
whartung: so what do you mean? |
| 23:04 |
|
whartung |
My general desire to keep my code as WYSIWYG as possible |
| 23:04 |
|
whartung |
having hidden magic means out of site, out of mind when things go sour. |
| 23:08 |
|
pdurbin |
just today a guy at work was saying java ee and jsf are a lot of magic :) |
| 23:08 |
|
whartung |
JSF is |
| 23:09 |
|
pdurbin |
hmm. ok |
| 23:09 |
|
whartung |
JEE is also, but it's it's actually pretty localized |
| 23:09 |
|
pdurbin |
localized magic :) |
| 23:09 |
|
whartung |
So, I try to limit the magic in my code base |
| 23:11 |
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pdurbin |
sure. makes sense |
| 23:11 |
|
pdurbin |
whartung: what do you use instead of JSF? |
| 23:11 |
|
sfisque |
tell him it's only magic if he doesnt read the spec and understand what the container does… aka RTFM |
| 23:12 |
|
pdurbin |
sfisque: oh, he completely agrees that say, Ruby on Rails, is the same... lots of magic |
| 23:13 |
|
whartung |
Rails is even worse |
| 23:13 |
|
whartung |
I use Stripes, an Action framework. |
| 23:13 |
|
whartung |
old school pages and JSP |
| 23:13 |
|
sfisque |
we could always use velocity and embed scriptlets in the templates :-P |
| 23:13 |
|
sfisque |
how is stripes? vs, say wicket or struts/tiles |
| 23:14 |
|
whartung |
wicket is a component framework, so "completely different". Struts 2 stole a lot from Stripes. |
| 23:14 |
|
pdurbin |
javaeebot: lucky java stripes framework |
| 23:14 |
|
javaeebot |
pdurbin: http://www.stripesframework.org/ |
| 23:15 |
|
sfisque |
ok. but how is using stripes, comparably. easier, harder, cleaner, etc. |
| 23:15 |
|
whartung |
I love stripes for its binding and it's Resolutions. It's routing is basic, but that's doesn't limit us. It also doesn't support HTTP verbs, which doesn't limit us dramatically, but we have moved to Jersey for RESTish stuff, instead of Stripes. |
| 23:16 |
|
whartung |
if it had better support, we probably would not have done that -- why introduce a net set of kit. |
| 23:16 |
|
sfisque |
aye |
| 23:44 |
|
pdurbin |
I gotta say, Jave EE is nicely pluggable |
