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IRC log for #javaee, 2013-10-03

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Time S Nick Message
02:28 SoniEx2 joined ##javaee
05:44 dangertools joined ##javaee
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06:26 Quest joined ##javaee
07:00 Quest any one who would like to discuss / comment about : Servlets create threads for each request where as frameworks like struts2 or spring make seperate object instances of that class.    but arnt the threads made by simple servlets themselfs objects that are instantiated like new Runnable(new ServletThread)?  So how can servlets be faster?
07:02 sess Quest:  struts and spring uses servlets behind their normal logic
07:02 sess so pure servlets would be slightly faster because there is probably less code
07:12 Quest sess yes but they act differently
07:12 Quest talking in context of threads vs. new object instantiations
07:25 sess Quest:  there will always be threads
07:25 sess and new objects
07:25 sess regardless of what framework you use
07:28 Quest but talking about the main difference in strategy as a high level view
07:29 sess the difference is just that spring/struts adds another layer
07:29 sess of abstraction
07:29 sess which of course takes slightly more cpu and memory
07:29 sess but not so much as to worry about it
07:45 Quest in non-frameworked servlet based. each user is given a thread for each request. in struts/spring each user request is given a full fledge object
07:46 sess Quest:  what is your obsession with objects? The term "full fledged object" makes no sense, creating objects is extremly cheap
07:49 Quest thats what I was trying to understand
07:49 Quest and I thought creating objects was not cheap.
07:49 Quest I think I would have to do more research on that.
07:53 sess Quest:  it depends on the object, if it needs like external resources to be created, it can be expensive, but I think the objects created regarding the requests with frameworks are very cheap
07:53 sess thinking about these things will gain you less than 1% extra performance most likely
07:53 sess premature optimization
07:53 Quest ok
07:53 sess you should _not_ use servlets for performance reasons unless your case is extremly special
07:54 sess like having some robot creating requests to your app 100 times per second
07:54 Quest ok
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11:09 acuzio hey Quest is here
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16:17 WileTheCoyot joined ##javaee
16:18 WileTheCoyot hello everybody
16:18 WileTheCoyot is this a place where i can post my question about java ee?
16:19 Naros ofc
16:19 WileTheCoyot i am a completely newbie for java ee
16:19 WileTheCoyot and i hope you can explain me the basic concepts about java ee
16:20 pdurbin WileTheCoyot: yes or no questions are preferred ;)
16:21 WileTheCoyot pdurbin: ok
16:21 WileTheCoyot i come from php programming and i don't understand how java ee works
16:22 tjsnell it's from php rotting your brain
16:22 WileTheCoyot i spent about a week for setup eclipse and tomcat
16:23 tjsnell do you know java?
16:23 WileTheCoyot yes
16:24 tjsnell javaee is rather broad, what are you trying to do?
16:24 WileTheCoyot hello word :)
16:24 WileTheCoyot hello world! :)
16:25 WileTheCoyot my first page
16:25 tjsnell as a servlet? JSP? MDB? EJB? JMS?
16:25 pdurbin WileTheCoyot: try this: https://github.com/pdurbin/javaee6webinar-walkthrough
16:25 WileTheCoyot using jsp or servlet
16:25 tjsnell yes!
16:27 WileTheCoyot i'm reading core jsp and servlet but i like something easier
16:28 pdurbin WileTheCoyot: try this: https://blogs.oracle.com/arungupta/entry/screencast_37_java_ee_6
16:29 WileTheCoyot pdurbin: is netbeans and glassfish easier to setup than eclipse and tomcat?
16:29 WileTheCoyot pdurbin: i'm using centos linux
16:29 WileTheCoyot pdurbin: and in the repo i only have eclipse and tomcat
16:31 pdurbin WileTheCoyot: if you want to play with glassfish on centos, I made this: https://github.com/dvn/dvn-install-demo
16:32 tjsnell WileTheCoyot:  Glassfish and Tomcat are not equivalent things
16:32 WileTheCoyot pdurbin: i want to play something simple and i don't know what dvs is :)
16:33 WileTheCoyot pdurbin:  Dataverse Network, sorry
16:33 pdurbin WileTheCoyot: ok, this is more simple, still uses centos and glassfish: https://github.com/pdurbin/javaee-vagrant
16:34 WileTheCoyot tjsnell: is tomcat a servlet container and glassfish an application server (i don't know the differences between them)?
16:35 tjsnell yes
16:36 WileTheCoyot do you know a good book for learnig java ee technologies? i like to know what i'm doing
16:37 WileTheCoyot i don't like copy and paste or tutorial that say you do this and then do this
16:39 WileTheCoyot when i'm learning a new programming language i don't like use an ide because i want to learn hoe it works :)
16:40 whartung netbeans and glass fish are trivial to setup. download it, install it, and click your way to glory.
16:40 WileTheCoyot whartung: not on a linux machine :)
16:41 WileTheCoyot but now this is ot my problem
16:41 whartung really?
16:41 whartung there's a linux download on the site
16:41 WileTheCoyot i have a working tomcat6 server
16:41 whartung as long as you have java installed, should be a snap
16:41 WileTheCoyot but i don't know how to write jsp or servlet :)
16:41 whartung I never had a problem with it when I did linux
16:42 whartung NB will give you a skeleton, then you can Right Click, New Servlet, and hit run - and you have a working servlet and index.jsp
16:42 whartung all of the plumbing is done
16:42 Naros not to mention, you'll likely want to look into some web frameworks which abstract away the servlet API for you :P
16:43 whartung Yes, AFTER you have figured out the Servlet API
16:43 WileTheCoyot whartung: this is what i hate
16:43 whartung going for a framework first without understanding  servlets first is folly.
16:43 whartung what's that WileTheCoyot
16:43 Naros Agreed, just saying that understanding the servlet api isn't the end
16:44 whartung no, but it's the beginning.
16:44 Naros Yep
16:44 tjsnell then you can switch to Play and not use servlets :)
16:44 WileTheCoyot for me i thing is better learning first the basic api and then a good framework
16:44 Naros that's the right route to go Wile is what we're saying
16:45 WileTheCoyot but now my question is
16:46 WileTheCoyot how can i learn servlet and jsp? i like do thinks one step at time
16:47 WileTheCoyot i'm currently reading this http://volume1.coreservlets.com/archive/index.html
16:47 Naros hehe, i think i have that book at home :)
16:47 Naros or one similar
16:47 whartung http://it-ebooks.info/book/375/
16:48 WileTheCoyot whartung: thanks for the link :)
16:48 sfisque joined ##javaee
16:48 whartung si
16:49 WileTheCoyot does these books explain the dir structure of tomcat or glassfish?
16:49 whartung should
16:49 whartung the structure is simple, however
16:50 WileTheCoyot because even if i made a jsp i don't kow where to place
16:50 whartung /, /WEB-INF, /WEB-INF/classes, /WEB-INF/lib, and the file /WEB-INF/web.xml
16:51 whartung I've always found this from Tomcat useful...
16:51 whartung http://tomcat.apache.org/tomcat-7.0-doc/appdev/index.html
16:51 whartung the IDEs supersede that, but this actually explains it a bit for you.
16:52 whartung if you type in all of the files, you gain some good foundation
16:52 sfisque is the question about container dir structure or the standard dir structure of an ear/war/jar/rar/sar file for deployment purposes?
16:53 WileTheCoyot sfisque: i want to know what goes where
16:53 whartung the dir structure is the same for all the containers. The only different is perhaps a local XML file that container specific, but for basic web apps, they're not necessary
16:54 pdurbin WileTheCoyot: http://tomcat.apache.org/tomcat-7.0-doc/appdev/deployment.html#Standard_Directory_Layout from whartung looks like what you want
16:54 sfisque wilethecoyot that depends on "what"  you are talking about.  are we talking about a deployed "thing" or something container specific (JMS provider, JDBC driver, etc.)
16:55 whartung he's talking about web apps sfisque
16:55 sfisque gotcha
16:55 Naros If your question is about where to place JSPs --- that's a question that sorta 'depends'.
16:55 Naros For now just place them in '/' (root) or a sub directory outside of '/WEB-INF'
16:55 sfisque http://www.openscope.net/2010/01/25/war-deployment-file-structure/
16:56 Naros When you get to a point of frameworks, you can utilize hiding jsps inside /WEB-INF :)
16:56 sfisque javaeebot google ear war dir structure deploy
16:56 javaeebot sfisque: Installing an EAR file or WAR files - Adobe Help and Support: <http://livedocs.adobe.com/coldfusion/8/installj2ee_06.html>; Chapter 4. Directory Structure of the Generated Project - JBoss: <http://docs.jboss.org/tools/4.1.0.Final/en/seam/html/directory_structure.html>; Deployment : Creating War file and directory structure - Oracle ...: <http://weblogicserveradministration.blogspot.com/2010/10 (2 more messages)
16:57 WileTheCoyot really i don't know what i want to know :) i'm lost in all these thinks
16:57 Naros the link sfisque gave you for war structure is a great starting point
16:57 WileTheCoyot Naros: but i don't know what a war is
16:57 Naros webapp.war is basically the '/' root directory of your web app
16:58 WileTheCoyot Naros: ok
16:58 Naros a war is a web archive file (a zip file of your app)
16:58 WileTheCoyot Naros: like a jar?
16:58 Naros yah except a war has a specific structure needed for the container to deploy it properly.
16:58 Naros hence the /WEB-INF directory
16:58 whartung read the tomcat web site, I linked, then read the book  WileTheCoyot
16:59 whartung no reason for us to really explain this. the tomcat thing gives you a taste and "hello world", the book goes in more detail, NB will give you wizards and server integration
16:59 WileTheCoyot whartung: i will
16:59 sfisque war (Web ARchive) , ear (Enterprise ARchive), jar (Java ARchive) - ear and war (and sar/rar) are specific types of jar files (jars with some specific requirements of dir/file structure)
17:00 whartung but free to come back when you have specific questions or confusion
17:00 WileTheCoyot maybe i will buy core jps and servlet
17:01 WileTheCoyot is this a good book for beginning
17:01 WileTheCoyot ?
17:01 WileTheCoyot and if i have any problem i will ask you here!
17:01 whartung ok
17:02 whartung the core book is probably a decent reference
17:02 WileTheCoyot sorry for my bad english and thanks a lot for your time
17:02 whartung be nice if it was updated to 3.0 (neither are), but, no real loss there, frankly.
17:02 whartung no worries, yw
17:02 whartung good luck, best success
17:02 WileTheCoyot i will need a lot of luck
17:02 Naros take care.
17:03 Naros practice makes perfect :P
17:03 WileTheCoyot see you soon guys
17:03 WileTheCoyot bye :)
17:03 * Naros waves.
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21:24 h4k1m hi guys
21:24 h4k1m what do you think of java certs?
21:27 whartung I think they're, like all certs, difficult to work with, Every time I need to play with certs, I go out, figure it out, get it to work, then somehow instantly forget everything I know about them -- kind of like perl. I blame the certs for this, not so much the java apis. The certs are actually conceptually pretty simple, but boy, when you add in all the formats and encryption options, and types…gah…messy, rote, no rhyme or reason
21:27 micchael :\
21:28 micchael I was asking about certifications sorry :p
21:31 sfisque joined ##javaee
22:48 pdurbin lulz
22:48 pdurbin whartung: I'm glad you got that out
22:48 whartung :)
23:13 tjsnell they suck
23:28 whartung :)
23:28 whartung I had a witty response last time, damned if I can recall it
23:28 sfisque there is nothing odd about being even....
23:29 whartung or, so they say sfisque, even odd.
23:29 sfisque ^_^

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Please see http://irclog.greptilian.com/javaee for which days have been logged.