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IRC log for #virtualJUG, 2016-09-27

virtualjug.com

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time S Nick Message
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00:26 Topic for #virtualJUG is now Welcome to the Virtual JUG - http://virtualJUG.com. IRC logs can be found here -> http://irclog.greptilian.com/virtualJUG/today
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03:10 JJoseph Will these presentations be available for viewing after the conference?
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03:37 mpasteven JJoseph: I believe they will be hosted on YouTube, which automatically records them
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04:01 JJoseph Thanks, mpasteven
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06:18 alostale 40 min to go! :)
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06:23 Aditya hi
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06:36 Habska Livestream?
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06:45 Habska starting or not?
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06:48 a3rHpa hello
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06:49 a3rHpa any one there
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06:50 a3rHpa hi
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06:51 a3rHpa any one there
06:51 a3rHpa ???????????
06:51 christmo Hey how are you?
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06:51 a3rHpa fine just testing the irc channel
06:52 christmo Good me too!
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06:53 a3rHpa i hear you loud and clear
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07:00 ad_robotics yes :)
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07:00 christmo (y)
07:00 vasilei yes
07:00 Praeterii yes
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07:00 debu yes
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07:00 radcortez hi guys!
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07:01 radcortez welcome!
07:01 rohit hello
07:01 smarks Hello!
07:01 Praeterii hello :)
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07:01 shouel hi
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07:01 Freakman no sound?
07:01 Freakman ah
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07:01 brunoais 128 and no OP's....
07:01 jmiguel Hello guys!
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07:02 jmiguel Yes, looks like there is sound.. I hear the keyboards ;-)
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07:02 JakubB Hi :)
07:02 alexn Hi
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07:02 shouel hi guys
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07:02 JavaDevVictoria hi all
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07:03 pawelpe Hi Guys :)
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07:03 Guest90739 Good luck for this marathon
07:03 Malikh Hi everyone
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07:04 BARATH Hi
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07:05 BARATH Is the session recorded to view later
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07:08 a3rHpa اه
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07:08 a3rHpa hi
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07:09 radcortez hi
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07:09 Naveen2k hi
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07:09 deceiver hi
07:09 sjmaple hello everyone! thanks for joining! here's to the start of an amazing adventure! :D
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07:16 sisko59 hello
07:16 smarks @sjmaple: it's late here so I'm going to sign off; see you in 19.5 hours or so!
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07:16 a3rHpa hi
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07:16 sjmaple wow! hey @smarks!
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07:16 sjmaple have a good sleep :) see you tomorrow!
07:16 jesuis Hello :)
07:16 smarks ok! just wanted to tune in for the kickoff; see you later!
07:16 sjmaple see ya!
07:17 a3rHpa cy
07:17 Imato Hello programming bots
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07:20 a3rHpa في عرب في الغرفة؟؟
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07:24 maryg This event is awesome! Glad to be present during the kickoff. I'm in Chicago and need some sleep before re-joining in the morning.  Thank you @Simon, @Roberto, and all of the rest of the organizing team!
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07:25 a3rHpa see you later maryg
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07:26 sjmaple thanks @maryg - see you in the morning!
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07:26 brunoaiss How do you deal with situations where a code in review goes back to progress?
07:26 Yinka joined #virtualJUG
07:26 brunoaiss How do you deal when you need 2 merges to complete it?
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07:28 a3rHpa any one have the link to the automation software he is talking about
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07:30 HarmeetSingh hi all
07:30 sjmaple welcome Harmeet! :)
07:30 ilanpillemer what fun
07:30 HarmeetSingh hello @simon
07:30 a3rHpa can any one post the link to the home page of the automation software he is using
07:30 a3rHpa ????
07:31 sjmaple I'll grab it from Sven
07:31 ilanpillemer no, do you know what it is?
07:31 TulsaJavaDevGrou He's from Atlassian so I assume its stuff they have written
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07:31 mylenereiners Agent Charlie is in Bitbucket :)
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07:32 a3rHpa thanks
07:32 TulsaJavaDevGrou Here's one from the issue tracker automation http://blogs.atlassian.com/2014/02/atlassian-support-uses-jira-automation-plugin/
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07:38 akmanocha i joined late... can you tell me its atlassian?
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07:38 TulsaJavaDevGrou so far yes
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07:39 akmanocha okk
07:39 akmanocha i hope its not bamboo
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07:47 yasar Yasar Holland
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07:48 a3rHpa في عرب في الغرفة؟؟
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07:51 radcortez any questions?
07:51 JakubB Clap, clap :)
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07:52 guz good job
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07:52 parrot61 did you bot pentests?
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07:52 a3rHpa so he is automating every thing from agen-charli
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07:53 Gokusama do u have a plan make them, some of them, opensource ?
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07:54 Jai Automation is the future for sure ... but are we ruining our carrier ... what are the other areas where the job market is growing
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07:55 radcortez Gokusama: maybe, some bots were integrated in bitbucket, but most are still in house
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07:55 radcortez so most likely if they are stable enough they will get to bitbucket
07:56 Gokusama cool
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07:56 a3rHpa https://bitbucket.org/atlassian/agent-charlie
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07:57 TulsaJavaDevGrou Does anyone know how long it will take a session to be available after it completes?   Thinking about some sleep but some of the next few sessions I'd like to watch within the 24 hours
07:57 a3rHpa ؤمشح
07:57 a3rHpa clap
07:57 Key Clap Clap!!
07:57 Praeterii thanks iit was awesome
07:57 ilanpillemer *clap* *clap* *clap*
07:58 parrot61 thanx
07:58 BretislavWajtr clapy clap!
07:58 a3rHpa *clap* *clap* *clap*
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07:58 MariuszMag clap*clap*...
07:58 Yinka lol
07:58 Guest59946 Thanks Sven
07:58 ilanpillemer Simon where are you broadcasting from?
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07:59 radcortez TulsaJavaDevGrou: they are available as soon as the hangout overs
07:59 Saif_Jordan What was the standup bot name ?
07:59 radcortez but each hangout runs for 8 hours to cover the different timezones
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07:59 ilanpillemer NaggyBot
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07:59 radcortez so this and the next 7 sessions will be available in the youtube channel after exactly 7 hours :)
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08:00 jesuis Awesome!
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08:04 KKhosla Hi, Can I get the link to google hangout where you guys are connected too?
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08:05 KKhosla sjmaple: Hi, Can I get the link to google hangout where you guys are connected too?
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08:06 a3rHpa hello raffeal
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08:07 sjmaple @KKhosla hey, we're just giving that out to speakers and JUGs as we have a limit to the number of attendees on there
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08:08 KKhosla sjmaple: Ah ok. No issues.. :-)
08:08 Ehsan https://github.com/raphw
08:08 Darth Tke cake is a lie
08:08 sjmaple if you wanted to vote for bytebuddy (great bytecode manipulation tool) you can do so here - https://jaxlondon.com/jax-awards/
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08:09 sjmaple ilanpillemer: I'm at home, broadcasting from UK :)
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08:10 DestinyAwaits sjmaple: Do we see these sessions later on the youtube channel once the live broadcast is over?
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08:11 Bhakti the Live session is little blur
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08:12 Aman_Symc the Live session is little blur > you can change quality from settings menu
08:12 sjmaple that may be your settings... click the settings cog on the youtube widget
08:12 sjmaple pick the highest res you can
08:12 sjmaple likely 720p
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08:13 Kosha @sjmaple: thanks had the same issue of blurness but got resolved
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08:13 sjmaple @DestinyAwaits yep, it's all part of the same stream, so you can rewind that
08:14 sjmaple @DestinyAwaits we'll split up into individual videos after and upload them individually also
08:14 sjmaple @Kosha great! I'll mention it at the start of sessions from now on for others too
08:15 royvanrijn Currently: 372 watching <- more viewers than the average conference keynote room
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08:16 DestinyAwaits sjmaple: That will be great. Thanks.. :) End of the billing cycle and already exhausted most of my data limits that is why I asked. :)
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08:17 sjmaple @royvanrijn I have a feeling that will go up for EMEA and Americas regions too - most of our members are situated there
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08:18 autobot Can you watch the presentation after live event ends?
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08:19 Kosha @autobot Yes
08:19 sjmaple @autobot yep, after the recording it all stays on youtube
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08:19 sjmaple we'll embed onto our past sessions page too for easier navigation
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08:21 justgaffing @sjmaple. thanks recording.
08:21 justgaffing @sjmaple. thanks for recording.
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08:24 sjmaple @justgaffing np
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08:28 Ingkenyb publicaran este video?
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08:31 ParamSelvam any suggestion on profiling tools which provide this level of information
08:31 karianna Jitwatch
08:32 karianna Find it on GitHub
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08:32 karianna https://github.com/AdoptOpenJDK/jitwatch
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08:32 ParamSelvam thanks
08:32 karianna Hi all BTW - Martijn from the London Java Community here :-)
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08:33 mimic47 Hello
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08:36 DestinyAwaits sjmaple: Do you have any plans to cover collections and Multithreading/concurrency videos planned? With some real-time codes to back the theory?
08:36 sjmaple java collections is actually the next session :)
08:37 sjmaple not sure if we'll see real time code in that session
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08:37 sjmaple if not - let me know and we can add something like that as a vJUG session outside of this conference
08:37 sjmaple we usually run around 2 sessions a month
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08:39 DestinyAwaits sjmaple: I like your work on collections cheat sheet for example and its something I have kept that with me since you posted that article but the thing is I can't keep all of that in mind.. Maybe a video session might do the trick.. People also ask for how most common collections works internally and when to use what.. I video combined with all these ideas from you will be very helpful.. Please do give it
08:39 DestinyAwaits a thought.. :)
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08:40 DestinyAwaits hmm. I knew that but the presentation might not be that detailed.. :)
08:40 sjmaple great to hear - let's see how this next session goes - I'd be keen to hear what you think
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08:41 Saif_Jordan Slides resolution is poor
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08:41 DestinyAwaits I will surely let you know.. :)
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08:42 DestinyAwaits Saif_Jordan: try to change the youtube setting to higher resolution
08:42 ivannov Saig_Jordan: maybe it's your internet connection. It's perfect here
08:42 DestinyAwaits 720p is the max it supports.. :)
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08:43 SomeNick sjmaple: Question for the speaker - What is a good place to go for more information on this topic coming from a point of zero-knowledge??
08:43 Saif_Jordan Wohooo , Youtube settings
08:43 Saif_Jordan :)
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08:44 BretW :)
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08:44 sjmaple thanks, SomeNick
08:45 sjmaple will ask in a few mins - if anyone else has questions, pls do add them in chat
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08:47 karianna @SomeNick - mechanical-sympathy, friends of jclarity, concurrency-interest are good groups to join.  Readinghte JVM language spec (Oracle Press) is also helpful
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08:48 karianna Disclaimer: I am not hte speaker :-)
08:48 karianna Disclaimer: I am not the speaker :-)
08:48 Stepan Question for Rafael: doesn't the branching optimization directly in Java code make the program design less understandable?
08:50 DestinyAwaits Pretty fast.. :) Please share the slides.. :)
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08:50 SomeNick karianna: thanks.
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08:50 fabriziocucci great talk...it would be great to have the slides! :)
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08:51 Zaid where do i find the slide
08:51 Saif_Jordan ++ ^^
08:51 susan Excellent talk
08:51 Key Missed the link for voting ByteBuddy. Can you send again please?
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08:53 Kosha could wrute these links in the chat
08:53 Kosha write**
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08:53 DestinyAwaits http://rafael.codes/
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08:54 sjmaple https://jaxlondon.com/jax-awards/
08:54 BretW Didn't catched the name of the best tool to do such performace testing... anybody?
08:54 DestinyAwaits go to this site you will get the link to mostly everything mentioned in the slide
08:54 DestinyAwaits http://bytebuddy.net/
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08:55 sainaen BretW, if you mean microbenchmarking, it was JMH: http://openjdk.java.net/projects/code-tools/jmh/
08:56 BretW sainaen: Thanks, I think that's it
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08:57 Kosha thanks
08:57 Yinka Clap
08:57 BretW Thanks
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08:57 SomeNick Thanks
08:57 Key Thanks a lot
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08:59 karianna @Stepan - the optimisation happens at the bytecode level, you'd write your source code the same
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09:01 Kosha could you suggest good links for hot methods
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09:03 a3rHpa where can i find the slides please
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09:06 Kosha yes
09:06 Praeterii yes
09:06 debu yup i can see them
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09:07 ChewJava DukeTroopers :D
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09:07 akmanocha yup
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09:10 zhorzh hey :)
09:10 ChewJava The force is strong with the iterator
09:11 Zaid :D
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09:12 ChewJava BUUUHHHHH
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09:13 sjmaple a3rHpa: I'll get all slides for all speakers and update on the vjug24 site
09:13 sjmaple hahahahah, ChewJava
09:13 sjmaple :)
09:13 Paps will there be videos of the topics
09:13 Paps from the live streams ?
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09:14 sjmaple yep everything is recorded and will be available afterwards
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09:15 Paps thank you very much!
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09:21 ChewJava what happened to the while(true) loop?
09:22 Kosha yes
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09:22 ChewJava ^^Question :)
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09:29 HarmeetSingh when will java introduce official immutable collection?
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09:29 selckin never
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09:30 HarmeetSingh hmm..
09:30 ChewJava why?
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09:32 asishgupta hi guys
09:32 ChewJava Question: What happens if I iterate over an immutable collection and add content to the base collect in another thread? Here I need synchronization, right? The slide says that it's never needed
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09:33 MaciejTrojniarz Immutable collection should be allowing to add anything to itself?
09:33 HarmeetSingh @ChewJava if you collection is Immutable, is it not possible to add content in existing collection, the add method return another new list
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09:34 MaciejTrojniarz +1 @HarmeetSingh
09:34 selckin thats why they hide the "base collection" from you
09:35 corsibu With immutable collections, you are threadsafe, but this comes at the cost of not being able to modify the original list, but creating a duplicate of it and inserting the new values
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09:35 HarmeetSingh For java 8 developers, #Javaslang is an amazing api for collections
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09:41 ChewJava @HarmeetSingh @MaciejTrojniarz but you can add elements to the underlying collection
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09:42 HarmeetSingh @ChewJava, still java have mutable collection not Immutable
09:42 HarmeetSingh for Immutable, we have Google Guava, PCollection, javaslang etc
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09:44 mimic47 ChewJava: the unmodifiableList only references the base list
09:44 ChewJava yes
09:44 mimic47 So adding to the base, will add to the unmodifiableList
09:44 ChewJava and the question is about concurrency
09:45 ChewJava yes
09:45 mimic47 Loophole
09:45 HarmeetSingh @ChewJava unmodifiable and Immutable are two different list
09:45 ChewJava the slides says that you do not need any concurrency sync when using them
09:45 HarmeetSingh @ChewJava unmodifiable and Immutable are two different list types
09:45 ChewJava think that is wrong
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09:46 HarmeetSingh @ChewJava what is wrong ?
09:46 mimic47 Why would you want to sync them?
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09:47 ChewJava Java do not have Immutable collection in base, right?
09:47 HarmeetSingh yes
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09:52 ChewJava @mimic47 @HarmeetSingh see https://gist.github.com/hendrikebbers/c249f88e21600008bcb345467632bd8d
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09:55 HarmeetSingh @ChewJava, in this, they are using unmodifiable java list
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09:56 Zaid unmodifiableList won't update
09:56 HarmeetSingh what is the problem with this code @ChewJava
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09:57 ChewJava Why Java do not has a IdentityList ?? Always need to do IdentityHasMap<A, A>
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09:58 ChewJava @HarmeetSingh not working ends in exception based on concurrent modification. And that was what I expected
09:58 ChewJava But I think the slide says something differnet
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09:58 HarmeetSingh i am not sure about slides, because i was joining late
09:58 mimic47 Me too
09:58 ChewJava ah, ok. That was just the point
09:58 ChewJava ;)
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09:58 mimic47 But I'm sure they would say to NEVER do this
09:59 ChewJava Think the slide was wrong or not clear
09:59 HarmeetSingh yes
09:59 ChewJava yes
09:59 ChewJava sure
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09:59 HarmeetSingh i am not sure, slides are wrong
09:59 HarmeetSingh this may be, you are confused with mutable and immutable
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10:00 Javaslang Nice picture (from Ape to Jedi) ;)
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10:01 HarmeetSingh @Javaslang also in session :)
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10:01 Javaslang Hi Hermeet :))
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10:02 Javaslang I meant Harmeet :))
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10:07 DestinyAwaits sjmaple: I believe you must consider making a video that covers up to JDK 7 as JDK 8 is not being used..
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10:08 DestinyAwaits Regards to Collections.
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10:08 sjmaple interesting :)
10:09 sjmaple are you sure the solution isn't to move up to JDK 8? ;)
10:09 MaciejTrojniarz @DestinyAwaits Don't do that because it will create another excuses for not switching to Java 8 ;) The more urge to switch from DEVs the quicker it happen ;)
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10:11 DestinyAwaits MaciejTrojniarz: Companies don't switch jdk easily at least here in India not sure how it goes in your country.. I prefer using latest versions but again it's up to clients and companies.. I will still be looking out for a video soon on Collections covered till JDK 7 for now from sjmaple.. :)
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10:12 MaciejTrojniarz DestinyAwaits: Of course it's not the case that it easily doable. I'm also sharing the pain that still working with project not using JDK8 ;)
10:13 DestinyAwaits :)
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10:24 Abhijith Lukas is SQLing all Java users (especially ORMmers)
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10:49 sjmaple any questions, put them straight in this chat and I'll ask Lukas
10:49 mimic47 Question: couldn't we use triggers for trick #7?
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10:51 ilanpillemer regular epxressions with XML in SQL statements. Eeek
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10:53 BretW :-D that man is crazy :)... that was awesome
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10:54 MariuszMag it was awesome ;)
10:54 ilanpillemer triggers are turing complete too
10:55 mpasteven Just woke up, rather early
10:55 SomeNick Thanks for the talk!
10:55 BretW thanks Lukas... great talk!
10:55 Praeterii it was really fun
10:56 mimic47 sjmaple: could we get a trivia bot for in between talks?
10:56 ilanpillemer what is a trivia bot?
10:56 brunoais XPath *.*
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10:57 mimic47 ilanpillemer: irc trivia??
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10:59 xala3pa Hello Iván!!
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11:02 sjmaple https://twitter.com/ivan_stefanov
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11:02 iseespock hello and thanks
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11:02 fridrik hi!
11:02 mpasteven Hello
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11:02 a3rHpa hello
11:02 ilanpillemer Miaoooow
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11:04 ilanpillemer clouds are nice
11:04 JacobAae #ivanontour - now from home :)
11:04 yasar mucho gusto
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11:07 jmiguel Hello @JacobAae , nice to see you here!
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11:08 sjmaple hopefully that font is large enough - let me know if it's not readable
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11:08 ilanpillemer so much of intelliJ. Where is the emacs love.
11:08 sjmaple make sure you have already increased your video quality - click the video settings cog and select 720p
11:08 sjmaple haha
11:09 sjmaple maybe he finally figured out the key combination to close emacs, so didn't dare open it up again? ;)
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11:11 mpasteven I am using the 240p stream and I can see the text on the screen, although I am using youtube-dl+vlc
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11:14 sjmaple wow, I love powerasserts so much! :)
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11:17 __clinton56__ Could we have Intelij IDEA in presentation mode? It would be more visible.
11:18 brunoais Where can I find the recording of: "An introduction to JVM performance by Rafael Winterhalter"
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11:20 brunoais sjmaple, ^
11:21 a3rHpa usually the vjug channel on youtube will have a recording of the sessions
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11:21 brunoais a3rHpa, I can only see up to 2h before
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11:21 brunoais *in the past
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11:22 mpasteven "foo" is a number, if you increase the base
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11:24 a3rHpa is the lecturer using xfce
11:24 mpasteven brunoais: I believe YouTube has to process the videos before they appear
11:24 brunoais mpasteven, Oh! Got it
11:25 brunoais Any idea how long that takes?
11:25 mpasteven Depends on YouTube and the video, can take 5 minutes can take up to 6 hours
11:26 mpasteven YouTube takes the input video and converts it to multiple formats
11:26 brunoais OK. That gives me a fair time-frame
11:27 brunoais Thank you
11:27 mpasteven However, a single live stream is being used and I am not sure if YouTube has the capability to split these streams
11:27 mpasteven So it could be manually spliced and then uploaded
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11:27 sjmaple hmmm, I'm hoping that the live stream only allows you to go back 2 hrs, but the youtube live recording states it can record 8 hours
11:27 brunoais It is limiting backward scanning
11:28 brunoais I want to go back 3hrs :S
11:28 sjmaple once this stream has completed in approx 3.5 hrs, we'll hopefully have an 8 hour recording
11:28 brunoais OK
11:28 sjmaple youtube automatically uploads it for us
11:28 brunoais I'll try by then
11:28 brunoais thank you
11:28 sjmaple we'll split it up into 8 sessions and upload manually for ease of viewing post conference
11:28 a3rHpa thanks sjmaple
11:29 a3rHpa i suggest that every speaker tells us about his setup:OS he is using IDE..etc
11:29 mpasteven a3rHpa: I do not remember XFCE using double bars, it looks more like Ubuntu's WM, GNOME, or Mate
11:30 tkupek this is Linux Mint
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11:33 a3rHpa ok
11:33 sjmaple shame we don't have Venkat Subramanium on this year
11:34 a3rHpa yeep
11:34 sjmaple he uses a great combination of Textmate and a javac plugin that allows him to compile and run when he saves and push the output as a little hint bubble to the screen
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11:36 corsibu out of curiosity ? why is he using constructor injection and not @Autowired?
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11:38 LubosM corsibu: @Autowired just tells spring to autowire a dependency .. you still need a way to set the dependency though, either through constructor or setter
11:39 ilanpillemer so jet lagged I feel like lying on the floor and sleeping.
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11:43 corsibu @LubosM wouldn't the @Autowired take care of instantiating the dependency automatically, especially when it was annotated as @Component ?
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11:44 LubosM @corsibu: it will .. he was just anotating the constructor arguments so that spring injects those
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11:50 sjmaple any questions for Ivan?
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11:51 yasar good explenation
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11:51 alostale s it possible to reuse the same parameters in different test cases?
11:51 MatiMati Hi, I want to ask about testing spring application (with context running) there are some problems with mocking beans, could you us how to deal with spock mocks and spring beans?
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11:52 corsibu thanks !
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11:53 a3rHpa thanks Ivan
11:53 alostale then is it possible to return a table parameters from a method?
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11:54 LubosM can spock mock static method defined in java ?
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11:55 alostale thx
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11:56 akrystian Thanks. Nice talk.
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12:00 acedesignz hello
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12:01 mimic47 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqRtUwi3kv8
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12:02 acedesignz the SQL tips and tricks are awesome, would like a link to the vid.
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12:02 mpasteven Echo!
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12:05 a3rHpa hello
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12:06 mpasteven MicroProfile is a bit confusing with Java ME, which is Micro Edition
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12:23 surendrand blr jug disable camera please
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12:25 sjmaple @mpasteven you mean the naming?
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12:39 sjmaple intelliJ again :)
12:40 a3rHpa but this time the text looks big and clear
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12:46 sjmaple let me know if there are any questions about this session
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12:55 mpasteven sjmaple: A question: Is Java EE to Java EE Micro comparable in size to Java SE Full to Java SE compact1?
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12:55 mpasteven As in say percentage wise
12:55 mpasteven or fraction
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12:56 mimic47 Question: seeing as how EE is a superset of SE, any chance of merging the two, and getting a macro profile or something?
12:57 surendrand microprofile is embedding the app servers like springboot?
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12:57 mpasteven Thanks for answering
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13:03 alex-cambridge How would you compare MicroProfile and the new JaveEE 7 or 8 against Spring and Spring Boot?
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13:04 unicorns 13:00 PM UTC – Delivering unicorns by Kasia Mrowca
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13:05 unicorns start that
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13:06 mpasteven Thanks
13:06 Vaibhav Thank You.
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13:08 ChewJava 🦄🦄🦄🦄🦄🦄🦄🦄🦄
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13:11 sjmaple sorry for the delay! but we'll get back on track :D
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13:16 smoyer @sjmaple - use the force
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13:17 mpasteven Well, one big project I had failed, although the small project goes much better
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13:22 pdurbin sjmaple: congrats on the award at javaone!
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13:23 sjmaple thanks! Very proud to have recieved it - big thanks to everyone, from all the vJUG leaders to all our members to- great community
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13:45 sjmaple let me know if there are any questions :)
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13:47 Tomasz Maybe Excel spreadsheet is all the business wants because it's tested, proven and cheaper than developer?
13:47 ChewJava What is this 🦄 doing in my backyard?
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13:48 DestinyAwaits We don't get the license to IntelliJ Idea.. :P
13:48 DestinyAwaits I use it a lot.. :)
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13:56 mpasteven sjmaple: A question: Would you say that having modularization in your project is a plus?
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13:56 mpasteven Many small parts instead of one large part, if you have to have a large project
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13:58 DestinyAwaits is it Youtube bug or am missing something here.. I was not able to go back to 10 SQL Tricks That You Didn’t Think Were Possible by Lukas Eder
13:58 DestinyAwaits Can anyone go to this session?
13:58 DestinyAwaits :(
13:58 mpasteven YouTube live can only go back so far
13:58 mpasteven You would have to wait until it is uploaded
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13:59 DestinyAwaits hmm
13:59 mpasteven Thanks for the talk
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14:03 DestinyAwaits I don't find any session on Mockito :(
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14:03 MaAmar On the testing side, there was the Spock session
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14:04 DestinyAwaits hmm
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14:04 DestinyAwaits missed that one too.. :(
14:04 xala3pa Simon , we are not seeing your screen
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14:05 DestinyAwaits I have missed a few sessions due to some other work.. am waiting for the uploads now.. :)
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14:05 DestinyAwaits Next session started.. xala3pa
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14:05 DestinyAwaits refresh your browser if you are not seeing anything
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14:06 DestinyAwaits Akka Akka.. hehe.. :)
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14:07 mpasteven If you are on Linux, you can do what I am doing: youtube-dl -o - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ZDmhHmitR0 | vlc -
14:08 mpasteven Avoids the need for a browser, since on my netbook it is quite slow while mplayer/vlc are pretty much instant
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14:10 DestinyAwaits Great way to stream If data is not a limitation.. In my case am on a 480p res. and its fine to me.. :)
14:10 hackendemoniado hello mariano are you connected here??
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14:11 mpasteven I am using 360p
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14:11 hackendemoniado i am usin 240p ...
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14:12 DestinyAwaits heh... Data is a limitation for many am worried about mine since morning.. :P
14:12 mpasteven The stream is available also in 144p
14:13 DestinyAwaits heh yes
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14:13 hackendemoniado jajaj me too
14:13 ehsan Is there any techniques to migrate to agile if we are not an agile team so far ?
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14:21 DestinyAwaits sjmaple: 2 more interesting topic requests... 1. Mockito, 2. Bitwise.. Bit Fiddling as used in many JDK Library.. :)
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14:22 sjmaple thanks for the input! always welcome :)
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14:23 DestinyAwaits Thanks a ton!...
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14:24 mpasteven Seems I must go away for a short bit
14:24 mpasteven cya, thanks
14:24 DestinyAwaits cya
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14:48 BretW sjmaple: Question on Johan: Regarding back-pressure - if the source of messages is external system and is producing much more messages than our stream can handle, what happens to all those messages which cannot be processed? Are they skipped? Is there some strategy for this or I just didn't get the point?
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14:51 BretW thanks
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14:53 corsibu Performance wise, are there any differences between Java and Scala Streams APIs ?
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14:56 LukeH Thanks APAC. Great session :)
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14:56 TulsaJavaDevGrou I think there should have been a session on timezones
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14:57 LorenzoV Hello
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14:59 delectAPPle Hello
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14:59 olbpetersson it's time for europe now right?
14:59 TulsaJavaDevGrou yes
14:59 olbpetersson nice
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15:00 ragsns Nothing going on right now correct, until we wait for Europe?
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15:02 ivannov Yes, don't forget that we move now to the EMEA stream
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15:03 ivannov give us a few minutes to start broadcasting :)
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15:04 inv where's stream?
15:04 zeeshan not sure
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15:04 olbpetersson http://virtualjug.com/vjug24/
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15:04 olbpetersson go down to the EMEA section
15:05 olbpetersson otherwise you will get a VOD from the APAC region
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15:05 ragsns I heard they are still having some tech issues. Soon I think (and hope)
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15:07 HybridProgrammer has EMEA started streaming for anyone yet?
15:07 royvanrijn Backup is running
15:07 DestinyAwaits Direct link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJy_FK4H69M
15:07 zeeshan no not yet
15:07 DestinyAwaits still not started
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15:07 royvanrijn The backup stream is live now, not EMEA
15:07 royvanrijn https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQbqNb77NDU
15:07 Egbert bread wi' nowt taken out..
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15:08 DestinyAwaits https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQbqNb77NDU
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15:08 HybridProgrammer Thank you zeeshan
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15:08 DestinyAwaits use above link
15:08 DestinyAwaits its working
15:08 DestinyAwaits live stream
15:08 JavaFan2020 so has the live stream started yet
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15:08 DestinyAwaits yes
15:08 DestinyAwaits https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQbqNb77NDU
15:08 DestinyAwaits use this link
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15:09 sjmaple please refresh your vJUG24 page
15:09 HybridProgrammer confirmed EMEA is online and streaming now
15:09 TulsaJavaDevGrou Looks like if you refresh the vjug page the link is there
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15:09 sjmaple I had problems with the stream, sorry!
15:09 sjmaple had touse our backup stream :(
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15:09 sjmaple but we're live now at vJUG24.com
15:10 sjmaple EMEA section!
15:10 sjmaple phew
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15:10 DestinyAwaits sjmaple: This link is working too. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQbqNb77NDU
15:10 shelajev cool, is the video on vjug24.com working?
15:10 ragsns I am using youtube link as well
15:11 DestinyAwaits I have pasted that earlier too.. I hope everyone is watching it now
15:11 DestinyAwaits :)
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15:11 DestinyAwaits shelajev: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQbqNb77NDU
15:11 DestinyAwaits use this it will work
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15:14 mpasteven Hello again
15:14 DestinyAwaits hey
15:14 DestinyAwaits https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQbqNb77NDU
15:15 DestinyAwaits use this one to watch the live stream
15:15 mpasteven Thanks
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15:16 DestinyAwaits np
15:16 shelajev yeah, DestinyAwaits, that's true, but we probably have people not in this channel :) and it'd be cool to check if they can join the fun too
15:16 DestinyAwaits :)
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15:16 shelajev thanks though!
15:16 DestinyAwaits you're welcome.. :)
15:16 mpasteven Personally, I cannot wait until Web Assembly, this way web dev can be completely be done in Java without requiring Javascript in the middle
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15:17 sjmaple ok, we're fully up and running again in EMEA - https://virtualjug.com/vjug24/
15:17 sjmaple I've put the EMEA section at the top of the page
15:17 shelajev boom! well done, Simon!
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15:17 sjmaple and APAC replay  in full is at the bottom of the page
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15:22 mpasteven Java 7 has asynchronous I/O, with the new NIO classes
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15:25 mpasteven Javascript is also generally just single threaded also
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15:28 TulsaJavaDevGrou Is there some sort of hybrid approach like grails, jruby, jython where you can use node.js on a jvm for IO and in the same app use java for computation?
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15:30 edufinn actually JSON is typed
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15:30 mpasteven TulsaJavaDevGrou: Do not know, however Java 8 has a Javascript backend used via the scripting system
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15:32 mpasteven Unary plus is pretty much the most unused operator in Java
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15:36 olbpetersson it's actually interesting with the graphs of npm-module vs mvn-modules. It's the same with yeomngenerators vs mvn archetypes. I think the "approachability" and LoC that's needed is a big reason as to why
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15:37 DestinyAwaits I really hope there is a small running app demo at the end..
15:38 DestinyAwaits I really wanted to see how they both interact
15:38 DestinyAwaits :)
15:38 ragsns Yes, there is a demo. but time might be an issue.
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15:39 DestinyAwaits hmm. but it will be great If the same is shared offline and just a demo run is provided
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15:41 mpasteven I do wonder if Watson still runs on IBM's POWER servers
15:41 TulsaJavaDevGrou I must say I am impressed overall with how well you get the livestream paradigm working....I've tried to present just one session livestreamed from our JUG and it was a bit of a learning curve
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15:43 mpasteven sjmaple: A question: Do you believe that Web Assembly would eventually replace the usage of Javascript and instead use Java in its place on the front end?
15:44 elzahr depends on brower makers, right?
15:44 elzahr depends on browser makers, right?
15:44 mpasteven elzahr: All major browsers state they are implementing it
15:44 elzahr oh really, good news then :)
15:45 mpasteven The only thing I am not sure of, is Apple
15:45 mpasteven but they use WebKit
15:45 sjmaple great question mpasteven, I'll ask
15:45 mpasteven But Mozilla, Google, and Microsoft are working together to create WASM
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15:46 mpasteven Actually, it looks like it includes Apple also
15:46 olbpetersson is it a web standard?
15:46 mselender joined #virtualJUG
15:46 olbpetersson or is it just something that all the greats has agreed is a good idea?
15:46 mpasteven No, but if all of the major browser vendors implement it, it becomes defacto
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15:48 mpasteven olbpetersson: WASM is also much simpler than Javascript, so other browsers can implement it also
15:48 elzahr i think he means if its an standard defined by regular orgs like IETF or similar, or is just defined between big corps
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15:48 olbpetersson ^
15:48 mpasteven It is not
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15:49 mpasteven Although, the groups working on it have quite a say in web standards
15:49 olbpetersson as long as it becomes a standard (event if its just practically) its good enough
15:49 elzahr muted!
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15:50 FabrizioF Q: Have you considered the use of GraphQL to coordinate the call to different REST services and the shape of the data?
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15:50 DestinyAwaits to know   Demo code ask for it please?
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15:51 christmo What do you think about join node.js with java queues?
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15:52 FabrizioF GraphQL != Graph Databases
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15:55 DestinyAwaits Thanks for asking.. :)
15:55 mpasteven Thanks
15:55 christmo thanks :-D
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15:56 bazoka thnks
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15:57 mpasteven Starting to get hungry
15:57 DestinyAwaits Thanks for the great session.. Java and NodeJs am hooked to try it out.. :)
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15:58 gsson_ Should play some crappy music between talks :)
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15:59 sjmaple should I sing?
15:59 gsson_ Please!
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15:59 mpasteven Sing _AND_ sword fight someone else while both of you are on rolling chairs
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16:00 DestinyAwaits someone joined..
16:00 DestinyAwaits haha
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16:02 elzahr ive barely watched 2 or 3..
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16:02 smoyer relevant XKCD link for those who don't get it: https://xkcd.com/303/
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16:03 DestinyAwaits audio out of sync.. :(
16:04 mpasteven DestinyAwaits: yes, I noticed that
16:04 DestinyAwaits for me or everyone is facing this?
16:04 DestinyAwaits hmm
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16:04 DestinyAwaits lets wait for the uplods it will not have that issue
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16:04 DestinyAwaits latency
16:04 DestinyAwaits :)
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16:05 brunoais sjmaple, You didn't show the slides, m8 :D
16:05 rburton--- hows my peoplez :)
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16:06 mpasteven Hello
16:06 Yohonnsun joined #virtualJUG
16:06 mpasteven And they are on rolling chairs!
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16:07 DestinyAwaits Ah I don't see any IndiaJug on twitter.. Disappointing to know.. Either people learned a lot or they are like me.. Straight away coming to the channel.. :P
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16:08 Zaid on the channel :)
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16:10 * rburton--- slips off his bottoms and puts a button up shirt on
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16:12 DestinyAwaits Anyone explain why People use IntelliJ Idea instead of NetBeans or Eclipse?
16:12 henrydall joined #virtualJUG
16:12 * DestinyAwaits loving the live coding.
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16:13 mpasteven DestinyAwaits: I use a normal text editor
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16:14 DestinyAwaits mpasteven: I use IntelliJ.. But just need to know others perspective.. :)
16:14 mpasteven My system is rather sluggish, so when I type in an IDE, it essentially buffers
16:14 rburton--- I still love Intellij. Although I'm considering using go-vim for Go
16:14 mpasteven So if I type really fast, I have to wait for all of the characters to appear
16:15 rburton--- mpasteven: sounds like you have a memory allocation issue?
16:15 mpasteven Memory is fine, it is rendering that slows it down
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16:17 Jordizzle Oh hai
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16:18 rburton--- A lot of folks struggle with Vert.x at times when it comes to JDBC related work due to the fact that JDBC is blocking. There's a pattern people employ to handle that.
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16:21 mpasteven sjmaple: Will there be any topics on stuff such as IoT for this vJUG?
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16:22 shelajev mpasteven, the agenda is available here: https://virtualjug.com/vjug24/
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16:22 DestinyAwaits request/response seems interactive
16:22 shelajev with the times of the sessions
16:22 DestinyAwaits publish/subsrcibe is not am I correct?
16:22 rburton--- Remember AWT :)
16:22 shelajev but I don't think there's an IoT session
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16:23 DestinyAwaits rburton---: so for jdbc we need worker?
16:23 DestinyAwaits right?
16:23 Guest18195 yes
16:23 DestinyAwaits as per slides it should be used for blocking stuff
16:23 DestinyAwaits ok
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16:24 mpasteven If your name automatically turns into Guest followed by a number, then someone else has already claimed the name that you use
16:24 DestinyAwaits \me loves live coding *
16:24 DestinyAwaits wrong slash.. :P
16:24 mpasteven You can try another name with /nick someothername
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16:25 rburton--- DestinyAwaits: correct
16:25 DestinyAwaits hmm
16:25 DestinyAwaits thanks
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16:25 rburton--- Otherwise you'll end up blocking everyone
16:26 mpasteven shelajev: I took a look, but it does not seem that there are any
16:26 rburton--- so it does make using things like JDBC messy a little but you get the upside of scaling and performance
16:26 DestinyAwaits hmm.. so apart from jdbc there seems many other things that might be blocking in nature too.. IO maybe
16:26 Guest18195 There's async http clients, for webservice calls for example.
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16:27 Guest18195 and it even looks like there's an async JDBC bridge: http://vertx.io/blog/using-the-asynchronous-sql-client/
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16:28 rburton--- Tasks like this in GoLang is super easy as well. You can even use time.After(1*time.Second) to cap how long the entire batch of requests will take
16:28 rburton--- I use this in my system to hit Cassandra for instance because I need to hit different nodes when doing a WHERE ID IN (..)
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16:30 DestinyAwaits jdk 8 is highly used.. :P
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16:30 rburton--- Sadly, Java took soo many years to get such basic things in place.
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16:31 Malikh interesting topic
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16:31 DestinyAwaits hmm. JDK still not widely used
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16:31 DestinyAwaits var is coming to java
16:31 rburton--- JDK not widely used?
16:31 DestinyAwaits then comes val
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16:31 DestinyAwaits JDK *
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16:31 DestinyAwaits JDK 8 *
16:31 DestinyAwaits sorry
16:32 DestinyAwaits :)
16:32 imrel used java streams in university assignment (ultimately 2*4 liner) got told to use "more traditional" approach
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16:32 DestinyAwaits haha
16:33 rburton--- I've been loving GoLang; but still use Java and Scala heavily
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16:36 Malikh java is having its final years unfortunately
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16:38 jfsavard Are you guys using java.util.Observable ? You might want to know that Observable is deprecated in JDK9 and there are better alternatives as of today.
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16:39 DestinyAwaits Nope.. Didn't use java.util.Observable yet.. What it is for?
16:39 mpasteven Seems Freenode died for a bit
16:40 DestinyAwaits yes
16:40 coderx yup
16:40 DestinyAwaits got kicked out
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16:40 shelajev_ oh, the freenode disconnected, if you asked any questions, please repeat them?
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16:40 mpasteven I actually use Java 7 still
16:40 imrel sorry, im shy
16:40 DestinyAwaits shelajev_: your nick changed..
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16:41 shelajev_ no worries, imrel! we're trying to be nice and friendly to everyone!
16:41 Tio Observable was used in demo for handling join of service 1 and service 2
16:41 Tio But it will be deprecated in java9
16:41 mpasteven If you just connect and your IRC client sees that your nick was already taken, it will use an alternative name
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16:41 shelajev_ I'll ask Bert about the Observables and if he has any comments on the changes in JDK 9
16:41 smarks1 I missed the example. Was it actually using java.util.Observable, or was it using one of the reactive libraries' Observable classes?
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16:42 Tio not sure... didn't saw import ...
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16:42 smarks1 Was there a code snippet?
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16:45 DestinyAwaits ext session is interesting
16:46 smarks Anyway, to close off the Observable issue, RxJava has an Observable class. It's completely independent of java.util.Observable. RxJava is pretty current, and j.u.Observable is very old and disused and is now deprecated in JDK 9.
16:46 smarks My hunch is that the demo used RxJava's Observable.
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16:47 jfsavard2 We can see the code snippets at - 11:50 in the current video
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16:47 jfsavard2 hi
16:47 jfsavard2 We can see the code snippets at - 11:50 in the current video
16:47 jfsavard2 about the Observable
16:47 jfsavard2 Observable<Message<String>> reply1 = vertx.eventBus()....
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16:48 jfsavard2 Perhaps more like minus 14 as of now due to disconnects...
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16:49 Stepan Q: Could you please show an example of a Worker - invoking a blocking operation?
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16:49 jfsavard2 Nevermind it uses a rx.Observable.
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16:50 DestinyAwaits JIT..
16:50 DestinyAwaits Just In Time I joined.. :P
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16:51 DestinyAwaits haha
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16:51 yasar can you share git
16:51 yasar i missed the git
16:52 imrel can he do a backflip? :P
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16:52 DestinyAwaits how its different from React and Polymer? Not sure If its a question to be asked..
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16:52 imrel yasar i think you can find in github real easy
16:52 appaloosa joined #virtualJUG
16:52 mpasteven Someone appears to have dropped utensils on a plate
16:53 PrajeeshKV My first IRC on VJUG :-)
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16:53 jfsavard2 "Java Elastic Coud for developer" - url ends with .php
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16:53 DestinyAwaits I NEED INTELLiJ IDEA License instead.. :P
16:54 DestinyAwaits Am looking forward to next session.. :)
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16:54 dominik why is jelastic running on PHP ? :D
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16:55 mpasteven Food time!
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16:55 jfsavard2 Was asking myself the same question ahaha
16:55 imrel dominik its only the wordpress
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16:56 DestinyAwaits Next session will be my last to call it a day.. Its 10:25 PM here now
16:56 BretW eh... I'm off today... quite tired after 10 hours :)... but thanks everyone, vjug24 is awesome event!!
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16:57 DestinyAwaits I salute to sjmaple for been there for so long. I saw this last message (getting tired).. Really hats off.. :)
16:57 MattOB Jelastic promo code?
16:58 DestinyAwaits I really want to leave now but will stick for the next session..
16:58 DestinyAwaits :)
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16:59 mpasteven Tue Sep 27 12:59:49 EDT 2016
16:59 mpasteven Tue Sep 27 17:00:02 UTC 2016
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17:00 imrel SOMEONE talked on stream
17:00 DestinyAwaits mpasteven: You wrote a bot for this or passing time till the next session starts.. :)
17:00 mpasteven DestinyAwaits: just /exec -o date
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17:00 DestinyAwaits ok
17:00 mpasteven I am doing some Java programming while I listen
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17:01 DestinyAwaits mpasteven: Multi tasking already.. Good going.. :)
17:01 HarmeetSingh @smaple you require some power nap :P
17:01 imrel which one is Sander and which one is Paul?
17:01 mpasteven Slow going though, the stream is kind of distracting
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17:01 DestinyAwaits hmm
17:02 ilanpillemer ?
17:02 mpasteven Just doing a slight refactor of my code
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17:03 DestinyAwaits Great..
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17:04 ilanpillemer I am only seeing you on APAC region video
17:04 DestinyAwaits there is a book on Java 9 already.. :P
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17:05 mpasteven ilanpillemer: APAC has ended
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17:05 imrel can i use jrebel/xrebel for personal hacking longer than 14 days? because you know how 14 datys is not enough on sideprojects scale
17:06 MattOB anyone have the jelastic promo code?
17:06 HarmeetSingh Hey all, Kick-Off with Java9 Jigsaw or Modularity https://blog.knoldus.com/2016/09/23/kick-off-java-9-project-jigsaw-part-i/
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17:07 dominik @MattOB i think you just need to go to https://www.eapps.com/vjug24.php
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17:12 mpasteven Freenode is a bit unstable today
17:12 shelajev hey, did the connection drop again?
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17:12 mpasteven shelajev: yes
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17:12 shelajev vjug24 broke freenode. That's sad :)
17:12 jfsavard3 Try connecting directly from kiwiirc.com, it is much more stable for me
17:12 mpasteven Do developers even use CORBA today?
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17:12 imrel no its not
17:13 jfsavard3 corba will be depracated as a module
17:13 mpasteven If you think Java SE 8 compact1 is small, Java ME 8 compact is even smaller
17:13 jfsavard3 the first module to be deprecated in jdk!
17:14 jfsavard3 it is in fact one of the mere reason @Deprecated annotation is allowed on module-info class
17:14 HarmeetSingh @jfsavard3 nice question
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17:15 jfsavard3 Uh it's not a question
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17:15 HarmeetSingh oh..
17:15 jfsavard3 Perhaps are you refering to @mpasteven's question?
17:15 jfsavard3 To be clear, corba WILL be deprecated
17:16 mpasteven I believe unary plus is used more than CORBA
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17:16 HarmeetSingh i just want confirm, @Deprecated is allow on module-infor
17:16 jfsavard3 Yes it is
17:16 imrel analyis - typo?
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17:16 mpasteven imrel: Very likley
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17:21 CesarNog Hahah agreed! Bots have feelings too
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17:22 imrel feels like more boilerplate
17:22 mpasteven Freenode is very unstable today, usually it is never like this
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17:23 mpasteven Our host has not appeared back on IRC, so I would suggest using twitter or similar to ask questions
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17:23 jfsavard3 @imrel What is boilerplate ? module-info.java ?
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17:23 imrel yeah,
17:23 dominik how will this work together with Dependency Injection frameworks? I basically want to expose my service interfaces, but have my implementaitions available at runtime?
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17:24 jfsavard3 @dominik This can be solved with ServiceLoader ... module provides/with etc
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17:24 jfsavard3 perhaps he'll talk about it
17:24 eudriscabrera good question @dominik
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17:25 mpasteven sjmaple: Welcome back!
17:25 sjmaple my IRC client crashed :(
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17:25 mpasteven sjmaple: Which OS do you use?
17:25 sjmaple OSX
17:26 mpasteven There are IRC clients, both graphical and terminal for OS X
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17:26 Zaid use https://kiwiirc.com/client, It is working fine.
17:26 jfsavard3 @imrel AFAIK, boilerplate code is when some code is unnecessary. What is your alternative with less code to achieve such security in your classpath?
17:27 sjmaple I use IRC cloud, just because it keeps nice history without having to run a server
17:27 sjmaple but using kiwiirc now
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17:27 mpasteven I use screen and irssi, so I can SSH from other systems and access IRC as needed
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17:28 HarmeetSingh this module wirings look like google guice
17:28 sjmaple That's what I used to do too, but I can't be bothered to keep a server running to ssh to
17:28 HarmeetSingh Java 9 removes the need of DI ?
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17:28 mpasteven ah, I see
17:28 jfsavard3 @HarmeetSingh Not really
17:28 imrel well he used service locator i think
17:29 HarmeetSingh this examples looks like google guice
17:29 jfsavard3 ServiceLoader is actually in jdk since 1.6 anyway
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17:29 mpasteven I do wonder if there is going to be a Java ME 9
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17:31 HarmeetSingh jfsavard3: give me a beief idea of ServiceLoader ?
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17:32 nachoBCN have a question from the BarcelonaJUG to Paul
17:32 mpasteven nachoBCN: Tell it to sjmaple
17:32 JannuMies More like provides a default implementation of DI-stuff.
17:32 JannuMies an optional one.
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17:33 jfsavard3 @HarmeetSingh he is actually explaining it at the moment
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17:33 jfsavard3 A specific point you want clarification perhaps?
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17:34 nachoBCN @sjmaple Paul, we know that you expect this question 😀. Why do we need this if we already have dynamic modularity with OSGi?
17:34 imrel this one is nice
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17:34 jfsavard3 OSGi is a completely different concept
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17:35 mpasteven These modules are going to be a part of the language
17:35 Guest83247 is it possible to load a module at runtime that is not on the initial module path to retrieve extra services ?
17:36 JJoseph the reason to use both the 'uses' and 'requires' keywords? Is it not possible to derive the dependencies by just using 'uses'?
17:36 mpasteven So that means Java 9 based versions of ME, SE, and EE get modules
17:36 brunoaiss sjmaple: Question: Seems to me this modules feature is much more into making java coding more verbose than it already is (which is quite verbose). How can the modules system actually help in the actual programming job without being more of a hassle than a helper?
17:36 k77 Is it possible to add "providing module definitions" at runtime (compared to compile time), to realize kind of plugin-concept?
17:36 JJoseph Sorry, my question got cut off.
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17:37 JJoseph Is it necessary to use both 'uses' and 'requires'? Can't you derive the dependencies from 'uses'?
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17:37 HarmeetSingh brunoaiss: module system device monolithic application into small services
17:37 imrel enables slim docker images for jre?
17:38 HarmeetSingh @brunoaiss : module system device monolithic application into small services
17:38 HarmeetSingh @brunoaiss : module system split monolithic application into small services
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17:38 javaBin 1) can module-info be multiple for a module as in one exposing some api and othe exposing the other api.
17:38 JannuMies This is actually quite sweet, since modules can hide implementation details in a ludicrously efficient way.
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17:39 jfsavard3 @javaBin If I understand your question correctly, you might want to read about module layers which is not discussed in this demo
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17:39 HarmeetSingh module system, handles basics work of build tools and DI
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17:39 HarmeetSingh this is excite me
17:40 javaBin 2) Also I would like to know if module info could be annotated or externalised in xml or some other properties or json file?
17:40 jfsavard3 but I'm not sure this answer your question
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17:40 jfsavard3 and no it can't
17:40 brunoais HarmeetSingh, So... Can you show me this won't be a hassle due to the needs of maintaining the module information file?
17:40 brunoais Or better
17:40 brunoais How can the module info file not be an extra hassle that requires maintenance?
17:40 HarmeetSingh module-info file is, just outlet structure of our module
17:40 JannuMies exposes *?
17:41 k77 The main purpose of this systems seems to be to ensure that clients do not use classes that are "internal implementations" of a certain library (aka module). But this you already had when implementing clients following only the official documentations of libraries/modules. Do I miss something?
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17:41 JannuMies If they don't provide that, this thing will be seen as an awful hindrance.
17:41 HarmeetSingh if we are following SRP(Sing Responsible Principle) for desing aplications, this makes application more lossley coupled
17:41 jfsavard3 @k77 it also ensure security between all the jars (module) in your classpath
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17:42 k77 Maybe this system is just to help people to implement library clients correctly who are not willing to read the libraries documentation? ;-)
17:42 jfsavard3 ...and more
17:42 HarmeetSingh @brunoais if we are following SRP(Sing Responsible Principle) for desing aplications, this makes application more lossley coupled
17:42 brunoais I agree on that
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17:43 HarmeetSingh @brunoais unix also follow this principle
17:43 k77 @jfsavard3: are the classpaths really "isolated" on JVM level? I mean when I do in some client module "Class.forName("hidden.SomeClass")" - do I really get some error?
17:43 HarmeetSingh @brunoais and now the days, web applications follow micro-services also
17:43 bjschrijver hi all, I just read through the irc logs during my vert.x talk
17:43 brunoais I still wonder how this modules thing can help any programmer. I sure can restrict your actions so you cannot access classes the developer wants to hide from you.... but... Is that really helping?
17:44 bjschrijver about Observable: i was using the RxJava Observable
17:44 Jeevesh Any idea about externalities module-info into Xml or so?
17:44 bjschrijver slide deck is at http://www.slideshare.net/BertJanSchrijver/vjug-24-building-microservices-with-vertx
17:44 brunoais Yeah. I'm working on 7 microservices ATM where I work at, too ;)
17:44 HarmeetSingh that's cool @brunoais
17:44 bjschrijver example code is at https://github.com/bertjan/vertx3-examples
17:44 HarmeetSingh Great power comes with Great Responsibility @brunoais
17:44 mpasteven J2ME/Java ME actually has something similar to modules
17:44 bjschrijver if you have any questions about the vertx talk, shoot
17:44 brunoais HarmeetSingh, I really agree with that
17:45 brunoais and too many people abuse them
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17:45 HarmeetSingh java always rocks
17:45 Jeevesh And can there be a multiple module info for same module.
17:45 k77 Will Java-9 make sure that I cannot do Class.forName("some.actually.invisib​le.package.ClassName").newInstance() from any module which is NOT intended to see the hidden class?
17:45 imrel HarmeetSingh, didnt seem so on MS user group meeting
17:45 brunoais k77 yes
17:45 jfsavard3 @Jeevesh in different layers, I think yes
17:45 brunoais That's in the slides, actually
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17:46 HarmeetSingh @imrel , i am not getting your point, MS user group ?
17:46 desh I missed the past sessions, are they going to be published as videos?
17:46 jfsavard3 @k77 Yes
17:46 jfsavard3 Unless you create a weak module
17:46 Jeevesh @jfsavard3 thanks
17:46 JannuMies *phew*, default behaviour is "expose everything", so this is an optional extension
17:46 HarmeetSingh @desh yes
17:46 desh thanks @HarmeetSingh
17:47 imrel HarmeetSingh, ignore my stupid joke
17:47 HarmeetSingh :P
17:47 Jeevesh Could someone answer my first question regarding externalising module info as Xml?
17:47 jfsavard3 @Jeevesh you can't
17:47 jfsavard3 And what would be the point anyway?
17:47 JannuMies Seems quite easily toolable, if the modules are actually composed as classes.
17:47 Jeevesh Not even use as annotation??
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17:48 HarmeetSingh @sjmaple JDK is split into how many modules ?
17:48 jfsavard3 No.. How would you do that?
17:48 k77 Is there ANY way to access "hidden classes" from non-explicitly-allowed code? I am thinking about frameworks like Spring etc. which use reflection a lot...
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17:48 Nayden sorry maybe I missed this and MAYBE it was already explained but will there be rename of public/transient/optional/static etc ? Or it is still up 2 be decided?
17:49 nachoBCN we have another question @sjmaple (but we don't know if we have time)
17:49 JannuMies @k77 I'd think that stuff like aspects create proxy-wrappers around the interfaces, so this wouldn't change a lot of that behaviour...
17:49 nachoBCN what will happen if we are using packages or modules written in another languages like C or C++?
17:49 jfsavard3 If you create a weak module, you'll be able to set even private fields accessible via reflection @k77
17:50 k77 so the Spring guys will have a funny time to modify their proxying logic to work with Java 9 ;-)
17:50 jfsavard3 Yeah... It may works anyways since there is the concept of "automatic module"
17:51 k77 and others as well - thinking about mocking frameworks like Mockito, Java EE, ......
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17:51 jfsavard3 But anyway, most likely all libraries owner shall update
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17:52 k77 maybe I missed this during the talk - I guess the "default settings" for the module system will be compatible to allow what is currently possible, so that Java-8 applications will run without any change under Java-9 ?
17:53 JannuMies It seems that the absence of moduel-info.java leads to current behaviour
17:54 HarmeetSingh awesome
17:54 Maxwell Q: Let's say my application depends on 10s of external modules. Do I need to explicitelly specify on module path. Or can I tell java / javac to take all modules from given folder?
17:55 k77 come on - I would not call Spring call a "half-way solution" :-p
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17:55 HarmeetSingh @sjmaple, please confirm Java 9 have 90 modules ?
17:55 mpasteven HarmeetSingh: yes
17:55 mpasteven Java is quite large
17:55 mpasteven Java 8 has around 4,300 classes
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17:56 HarmeetSingh java really rocks
17:56 k77 the currently concept of the module systems seems to be quite questionable :-/
17:57 k77 the current concept of the module systems seems to be quite questionable :-/
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17:57 imrel Java 8 streams rock
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17:59 mpasteven HarmeetSingh: In retrospect, Java ME 8 has around 216 classes
17:59 mpasteven If you use the compact profile, it becomes 158
17:59 mpasteven So Jave ME is really micro
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18:02 HarmeetSingh haha
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18:03 HarmeetSingh @sjmaple #vjug members also required these tshirts :P
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18:03 k77 @simon: I see you online here since 7:00am UTC time - are you planning to make the full 24h shift?
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18:04 mpasteven I told the squirrels outside
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18:04 k77 good to know
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18:05 dominik its "redworks" ?
18:06 T10 what was the IDE used for java 9 presentation ?
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18:06 MeenaK command line interface CLI
18:07 imrel dominik its RecWorks on banner
18:07 mpasteven T10: I believe it was just a basic text editor
18:07 dominik thx
18:08 mpasteven The camera should be adjusted to view the screen
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18:09 sjmaple yeh, recworks
18:09 sjmaple I don't think I'll do the full 24 hrs :)
18:10 HarmeetSingh @sjmaple #vjug members also required these tshirts :P
18:10 mpasteven sjmaple: Drink coffee, a few dozen energy drinks, and you will be bouncing off the walls
18:10 Biju Auido is not clear
18:10 sjmaple I think we should give some shirts out to members, athough we can't afford >4000 shirts :)
18:10 nachoBCN we'd like some! ;-)
18:10 sjmaple I think audio issue is because of room size
18:11 sjmaple let me see what I can do :)
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18:11 nachoBCN perfect!
18:11 Biju thanks
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18:11 HarmeetSingh @sjmaple , i am in some or not :P
18:11 sjmaple will check how much budget we have left
18:11 HarmeetSingh sure :)
18:11 nachoBCN btw, we have switched on another TV in order to see better the presentation (otherwise in the main Hangout the screen does not appear completeley)
18:12 nachoBCN (so we have a little lag, but it is not important)
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18:12 sjmaple ok, you're viewing via YouTube?
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18:13 nachoBCN yes, we have 2 TVs, one with the hangout and another as a "viewer" (to avoid problems with echoes and so on...)
18:14 nachoBCN (people here at Netsuite have great resources ;-))
18:14 sjmaple ahh ok, that must look confusing :) how long is the delay out of interest?
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18:15 miragemiko only microphone is like corrupted
18:15 nachoBCN about 10-30secs
18:15 nachoBCN we can manage that ;-)
18:15 sjmaple :)
18:15 miragemiko :) I hear it like sequence
18:15 miragemiko of streams
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18:16 k77 switching off audio because of too bad quality - only following video
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18:17 mpasteven It sounds as if speakers are being recorded
18:17 mpasteven i.e. speaker -> microphone -> speakers -> air -> hangouts microphone
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18:17 miragemiko true -> turn of speakrs
18:18 k77 what about "test-driven-conferences"? I mean testing it before publishing it? ;-)
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18:21 brunoais both are the same size -_-'
18:21 brunoais Oh wait, I'm 3 mins behind
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18:22 sjmaple I measured it on screen :)
18:22 sjmaple before the question was asked I think :)
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18:23 brunoais oh
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18:24 GNPA hi! And got it regarding doing questions
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18:27 brunoais I'm having really a hard time understanding what they are saying :S
18:27 brunoais Too much echo and packet drops
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18:29 brunoais sjmaple, Is there a way to solve it afterwards? Maybe a local recording?
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18:29 k77 +1
18:29 k77 the audio is effectively unusable
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18:31 k77 sounds better now
18:31 mpasteven yes
18:31 mpasteven much better
18:31 sjmaple better?
18:31 Kundan yes
18:31 k77 thanks!!
18:31 sjmaple great
18:31 robchurch that is better (though i didn't have too big a problem before)
18:32 miragemiko great!!!
18:32 mpasteven Much clearer now
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18:32 sjmaple sorry, wish I'd have suggested it earlier!
18:32 k77 now start the session again from the beginning ;-)
18:32 sjmaple ahahahah :)
18:33 k77 (kidding)
18:33 mpasteven I could still hear it before, but sometimes syllables would change
18:34 mpasteven and sometimes multiple syllables would change in the same word
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18:35 brunoais sjmaple, REALLY better now(!), yes (I'm still 3 mins late) Thank you!
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18:39 smarks bjschrijver: thanks for clarifying about rx.Observable
18:40 smarks I was the one who deprecated j.u.Observable so I really didn't think anybody was using it!
18:40 GNPA2 they are darkside programmers
18:40 nacho_BCN funny *real* we've make a poll here and one guy said that he is a full-stack developer... but just only on LinkedIn ;-)
18:40 shelajev_ smarks! Great to see you here!
18:40 shelajev_ :)
18:40 nacho_BCN I've came with a question (mine)
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18:42 mpasteven Observable should have been an interface
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18:42 smarks shelajev_: I'll be here on and off all day until my time slot at 20:00 PDT (0300 UTC)
18:42 smarks mpasteven: you mean j.u.Observable?
18:42 mpasteven In Java 8, it could have gotten some internal VM magic to use private fields
18:42 mpasteven yes
18:43 GNPA2 coffe number x break
18:43 nacho_BCN how fine (little, smaller, only should do 1 thing) should a micro service should be? should we think on include some services in others?
18:43 GNPA2 yes on mirc
18:43 GNPA2 by nacho
18:43 smarks I think j.u.Observable/Observer are beyond repair ==> deprecated
18:44 smarks not worth fixing; many other things out there are much more useful/powerful
18:44 sjmaple any questions?
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18:44 GNPA2 "nacho_BCN
18:44 GNPA2 how fine (little, smaller, only should do 1 thing) should a micro service should be? should we think on include some services in others? "
18:44 GNPA2 asked by nacho_BCN
18:45 k77 my only question: are the slides available somewhere?
18:45 nacho_BCN I mean, why micro? why not "mini"? including more business logic than we usually think from the "developer" perspective?
18:45 sjmaple nacho_BCN: grab the mic
18:45 nacho_BCN uhh.. it's far away!
18:45 mpasteven Afaik, nothing in the class library used Observable/Observer anyway
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18:46 mpasteven smarks: Are there any plans to deprecate java.io.* such as java.io.File?
18:47 smarks No concrete plans. Problem is that java.nio is not yet a complete replacement for java.io.
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18:48 GNPA2 ... also there is a lot of code still using java.io
18:48 smarks Yes, that too.
18:48 GNPA2 backwards compatibility is a problem in a language used for backend as much as Java.
18:48 GNPA2 Stuff must work period.
18:49 mpasteven One thing I am glad for is that I will never have to deal with java.io or serialization
18:49 mpasteven sjmaple: Thanks for hosting us
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18:49 sjmaple my pleasure! :)
18:49 sjmaple welcome back smarks
18:50 mpasteven GNPA2: Backwards compatibility can be a burden though
18:50 GNPA2 true
18:50 smarks Note, deprecation doesn't imply that something will eventually be removed. This is clarified in Java 9. Only things with the new boolean element forRemoval=true are planned to be removed.
18:51 mpasteven Personally, I feel serialization should be deprecated
18:51 GNPA2 but we have to ensure that migration works
18:51 mpasteven Or at least reinvented
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18:52 GNPA2 replacing something or improving it in a massivelly set of libraries used brings problems... and when first launched programming languages improvements often have issues.
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18:52 GNPA2 so replacing some module/library/etc that is core in functionalities
18:52 GNPA2 it must work.
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18:55 mpasteven Is not Java 9 getting a new line reading library or similar?
18:55 mpasteven similar to GNU readline that is
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18:59 GNPA2 Will modularity allow to reduce final .java/.jar smaller
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18:59 GNPA2 and how much?
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19:00 smarks mpasteven: jshell uses jLine internally, but the latter isn't a public API
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19:00 k77 talking about compatibility issues, I would start a "big break" on a much lower level: generics (need to distinguish between covariant and contravariant types, so that an ImmutableList<String> CAN actually be a subtype of ImmutableList<Object>), as first-class citizens (instead of being handled as instances of anonymous classes with bad performance
19:00 k77 ), the generics type erasure at runtime,
19:00 jfsavard3 @GNPA2 You mean JDK? Yes, and the result depends on what you include, what you strips and compress rate
19:00 mpasteven If jLine were to be public, it could replace java.io.Console
19:00 GNPA2 Also, will we require to explicitly identify dependencies of priorly created .jars or will this give some autonomously?
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19:01 GNPA2 jfsavard3 will it bee automatic ?
19:01 mpasteven GNPA2: I do not believe there would be space savings using modules compared to JARs
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19:02 mpasteven Unless your code is very modular, you might not need to push an entire clean update
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19:03 GNPA2 Is not the hole idea to reduce dependency unused resulting among other advantages in lower final solutions/applications.
19:03 GNPA2 i.e., using modularity?
19:03 mpasteven yes
19:03 mpasteven You can completely cut out CORBA for example
19:03 GNPA2 Then, should a .jar not become smaller?
19:04 mpasteven In theory you have smaller Java downloads and self contained VMs
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19:04 GNPA2 So we have more less bloated JVMs but not necessarly less bloated applications?
19:04 mpasteven yes
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19:06 mpasteven Basically as it stands right now, you have 4 splits in the VM
19:06 GNPA2 Then for example in a far future can we have a less eavy netbeans that solely loads modules specifically to the ones required by openned projects, making the IDE way memory lighter/faster?
19:06 mpasteven compact1 (java.lang, java.nio, java.util, etc), compact2, compact3 (javac), and full (AWT/Swing)
19:06 sjmaple oops, forgot to say hello to nacho_BCN :)
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19:06 sjmaple hello nacho_BCN :D
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19:07 GNPA2 I mean as a practical use case.
19:07 GNPA2 Resorting to modularity
19:07 mpasteven Based on current numbers, there are 90 modules for Java 9
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19:07 mpasteven It really depends on the Java library however, a module could depend on another module despite an application not using it
19:08 mpasteven GNPA2: but over time that could happen
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19:09 mpasteven So, say module A depends on module B, but only uses a single thing from it
19:09 mpasteven and module B grabs all of these other modules
19:10 mpasteven If the application only uses module A, then it can more freely change which modules it uses
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19:11 GNPA2 ... It allows expansion without having tendence to have monolithic code?
19:11 GNPA2 is that what your are trying to say mpasteven
19:11 GNPA2 ?
19:11 mpasteven I would say yes
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19:12 mpasteven You would only need to use what you need
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19:12 GNPA2 Then modules actually solve a practical problem I had while building a game engine ...
19:13 GNPA2 An academic game engine but an attempt at a modular design nevertheless.
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19:14 mpasteven You know, technically Java 7 can use Java 8's lambdas since it has invokedynamic
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19:14 mpasteven Although there are quite a number of missing library methods
19:14 GNPA2 I did not know that.
19:14 Vimforeverything How likely are you to discuss machine learning? :o)
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19:15 mpasteven And Java 7 does not support non-abstract interface methods
19:15 mpasteven Which means no defaults
19:15 GNPA2 Vimforeverything the queston was for the presenters right?
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19:15 GNPA2 That I knew
19:16 GNPA2 From https://github.com/winterbe/java8-tutorial
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19:16 mpasteven GNPA2: Well, the Java 8 VM supports for example private non-abstract interface methods
19:16 GNPA2 not mine !
19:16 mpasteven However Java 8 (the language) does not
19:16 GNPA2 I know
19:16 GNPA2 I use Java 8 version in my code.
19:17 GNPA2 Including lambdas in spite of some performance tweeks here and there
19:17 GNPA2 but in terms of readability the code is much more intuitive.
19:17 GNPA2 For me at least.
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19:17 mpasteven On the VM level, if you know of C/C++, invokedynamic (what lambdas use) can essentially turn into a function pointer
19:17 mpasteven So it has the same cost as a method call
19:18 mpasteven And depending on the dynamic linkage, the VM could optimize it and inline it dynamically
19:18 GNPA2 Including lambdas in spite of some performance tweeks here and there
19:18 GNPA2 Interesting
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19:18 GNPA2 I meant comparing to collection methods.
19:18 mpasteven lamdbas can increase performance in specific cases
19:19 mpasteven Theoretically anyway
19:19 mpasteven The VM would have to be designed for such optimizations
19:19 Vimforeverything @GNPA2 yes the machine learning question was for the presenters...also..hello from connect sponsored group Birmingham!
19:19 GNPA2 Yes I know I worked with CUDA OpenCL and OpenMP in the past, and all my lambdas have an stream. case I want to test between parallel and not.
19:19 GNPA2 Hello back.
19:20 Vimforeverything Yey!
19:21 mpasteven GNPA2: collection methods such as say "contains"?
19:21 GNPA2 Also, for a while I used global statc boolean parameters to on/off using lambdas or the collections code.
19:21 GNPA2 among others.
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19:22 GNPA2 for or for each outside colections
19:22 GNPA2 It usually gets better with lambdas
19:22 GNPA2 as far as it concerned me
19:22 GNPA2 if the data is reused
19:22 GNPA2 then at a second third and so on runs
19:23 mpasteven Hypothetically if you were making a game, `MethodHandle`s can be very handy
19:23 GNPA2 the overall time is lower than with collections or "standard" cycles.7
19:23 mpasteven For example if you want an action to be performed on a specific stack frame
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19:23 mpasteven before Java 7, you would have to use say an enumeration for actions
19:23 mpasteven Or the even slower reflection (not that performant)
19:24 nacho_BCN lovely functional libraries!
19:24 GNPA2 actually making a game engine
19:24 GNPA2 not a game
19:24 GNPA2 per-se
19:24 mpasteven However with Java 7 and up, you can bind each frame's action to a specific `MethodHandle`
19:24 GNPA2 interesting suggestion did not know it.
19:24 mpasteven Instead of say having 1,000 different implementations of an interface
19:25 mpasteven You can have say a single class containing methods that do things, potentially even things not known at compile time
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19:26 nacho_BCN a question for the speaker
19:27 Vimforeverything joined #virtualJUG
19:27 nacho_BCN (we can wait until the end)
19:27 nacho_BCN how stables are those libraries? do you recommend all of them for Production?
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19:28 mpasteven GNPA2: So you could create a class dynamically at run-time or use javax.tools.JavaCompiler to compile your user scripts
19:28 mpasteven Normally you would need to use reflection which would cause a severe loss of speed
19:28 mpasteven Since everything must be reflected, instead with `MethodHandle` you can bind those special frame actions (which are compiled as `invokedynamic` calls)
19:29 mpasteven And you essentially remove the costs of doing stuff such as `Method.invoke(foo, bar, baz)`.
19:29 GNPA2 for loading some preset configuration on loading would be useful
19:29 GNPA2 for placing stuff in a graphical scene for example.
19:30 mpasteven You can actually use it as a faster means of generating a graphical scene also
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19:30 mpasteven You know, vjug26 is valid on another planet =P
19:30 GNPA2 lol
19:31 mpasteven GNPA2: If you generate a Java class with methods for your specific scene, you can call into that
19:31 Vimforeverything How would you compare GRPC with inode and TSV? Would you recommend using a ruby on rails back end for this requirement? How does RPC apply to ASN buses?
19:31 mpasteven So it would be similar to how graphics drivers compile OpenCL to their GPU Specific code
19:32 GNPA2 I know I partially do that actually.
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19:32 GNPA2 but thanks for the suggestion nevertheless
19:33 nacho_BCN super the Javaslang project!
19:33 GNPA2 I actually got a question what will we have to change in UML diagrams in projects if using Java 9?
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19:34 mpasteven GNPA2: You could probably add a box around code and call it a module box
19:34 mpasteven Over packages
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19:34 lazerBlade hello
19:34 mpasteven Hello
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19:35 GNPA2 So in the class diagrams we might encapsulate them as modules ????
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19:35 mpasteven in a way, yes
19:35 GNPA2 My question is more in the sense is this compatible with what we can do with UML diagrams
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19:36 mpasteven GNPA2: yes
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19:39 GNPA2 A question for the presenter in the question part: Will or are modules intended to allow like in the example of CORBA envisioned as way to create interoperable data frames and or libraries usable by other programming languages?
19:39 mpasteven GNPA2: I believe you are behind
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19:40 mpasteven GNPA2: Are you watching the Java 9 modularization?
19:40 GNPA2 The questions started know
19:40 GNPA2 yes
19:40 mpasteven That was a few hours ago
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19:40 GNPA2 danr
19:40 GNPA2 darn
19:41 GNPA2 my bad
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19:41 mpasteven Note, CORBA is being deprecated, since noone uses it
19:41 GNPA2 I know actually cases were it is used.
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19:41 GNPA2 But replaceble
19:42 GNPA2 the thing is inter language communication
19:42 GNPA2 its a means
19:42 mpasteven That has been somewhat replaced by stuff such as XML/JSON
19:42 mpasteven Or other binary forms
19:42 Vimforeverything So using Kali Linux which what testing sequence methodology would you recommend using arachni?
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19:43 GNPA2 Still some people use it because until know it was Java Native
19:43 GNPA2 I actually know someone that used it in some sort of microcontroler to interoperate between C and Java
19:44 mpasteven sjmaple_: A question...
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19:44 GNPA2 but again alternative more recent alternatives
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19:44 miragemiko why you haven't use them on production ?
19:44 nacho_BCN we have to go
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19:44 mpasteven Do you believe that you could stop using lambdas now that you have them?
19:44 sjmaple thanks nacho_BCN !
19:45 nacho_BCN nice to meet you once again @sjmaple Oleg & co!
19:45 mpasteven nacho_BCN: cya
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19:45 miragemiko I don't use them either on production
19:45 nacho_BCN you should come to Barcelona! ;-)
19:45 sjmaple likewise
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19:45 sjmaple would love to :S
19:45 sjmaple err, I mean :D
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19:46 GNPA2 leaving
19:46 GNPA2 bye
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19:46 nacho_BCN ;-)
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19:47 mpasteven Never meant that hostility was against them
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19:47 mpasteven But thanks for the answer
19:49 mpasteven Thanks for the talk!
19:49 maryg Thanks Rabea
19:49 razorBlade does  stream and parallel computatoin in java benefits from CG
19:49 razorBlade ?
19:50 juanmanuel thank u Rabea
19:50 razorBlade Graphics Cards
19:51 mpasteven sjmaple_: So what are you listening to between streams?
19:52 razorBlade probablt power rangers theme song
19:52 razorBlade probably*
19:52 Vimforeverything joined #virtualJUG
19:52 mpasteven That actually sounds good
19:53 joedayz Hi guys. Regards from Peru. Here we are listening Salsa jeje
19:53 mpasteven Hello
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19:54 juanmanuel "go go power rangers....
19:54