| Time |
S |
Nick |
Message |
| 00:21 |
|
|
philbot joined #spanworm |
| 00:21 |
|
|
Topic for #spanworm is now http://spanworm.com - own your words and inch toward data liberation | logs at http://irclog.greptilian.com/spanworm/today |
| 00:26 |
|
pdurbin |
Hello! I just registered http://spanworm.com and #spanworm on irc.freenode.net because I wanted a place to talk about a variety of topics such as data liberation and owning your own words |
| 00:27 |
|
pdurbin |
My website is http://greptilian.com if you'd like to read more about me. |
| 00:28 |
|
pdurbin |
The "variety of topics" is still forming but by writing about them I hope to have them hang together in a coherent way. |
| 00:28 |
|
pdurbin |
I'm pretty big into data liberation. |
| 00:29 |
|
pdurbin |
Recently I heard Gina Trapani say that not everyone knows what that means. That only people who follow Google do. |
| 00:30 |
|
pdurbin |
I'm pretty sure she mentioned this on This Week in Google: http://twit.tv/twig |
| 00:31 |
|
pdurbin |
It was a comment from Anil Dash: http://dashes.com/anil |
| 00:31 |
|
pdurbin |
(I should link to Gina's site too: http://ginatrapani.org ) |
| 00:32 |
|
pdurbin |
'The Data Liberation Front is an engineering team at Google whose singular goal is to make it easier for users to move their data in and out of Google products. We do this because we believe that you should be able to export any data that you create in (or import into) a product. We help and consult other engineering teams within Google on how to "liberate" their products.' -- http://dataliberation.org |
| 00:33 |
|
pdurbin |
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Data_Liberation_Front |
| 00:34 |
|
pdurbin |
I've pretty much reached the point where I don't want to put my content into any system that doesn't let me get it out. |
| 00:35 |
|
pdurbin |
Dave Winer put it well: "I'm not going to put my writing in spaces that I have no control over. I'm tired of playing the hamster." -- http://scripting.com/stories/2012/03/16/beforeIUseBranch.html |
| 00:36 |
|
pdurbin |
That "Before I use Branch" post is linked from "Owning Your Own Words – Is It Important?" - http://branch.com/b/owning-your-own-words-is-it-important-1 |
| 00:37 |
|
pdurbin |
Clearly, I think it is. :) |
| 00:39 |
|
pdurbin |
That question was raised by Josh Miller, the founder of Branch: http://joshm.co |
| 00:40 |
|
pdurbin |
He asks, "Why should I care about ownership of the space where I share my thoughts online, if I ultimately still 'own' those words?" |
| 00:47 |
|
pdurbin |
Speaking of spaces and control... there's Twitter... and then there's a similar service at http://identi.ca that runs on open source software: http://status.net |
| 00:48 |
|
pdurbin |
It's written primarily by Evan Prodromou: http://evan.prodromou.name |
| 00:52 |
|
pdurbin |
Last summer he tweeted, "My point is that open alternatives *DO* work. Not always, but sometimes" -- https://twitter.com/evanpro/status/237654060247969792 |
| 00:52 |
|
pdurbin |
I jumped in to the conversation (which these days you can actually follow somewhat better from that link above) |
| 00:54 |
|
pdurbin |
A lot of systems and services were mentioned: email, HTTP, POTS, postal mail |
| 00:54 |
|
pdurbin |
http://p2pfoundation.net/Federated_Blog |
| 00:56 |
|
pdurbin |
"trackback; RSS also. Ping systems. Tags" |
| 00:56 |
|
pdurbin |
"I like @davewiner 's approach with Radio2/Blork (http://docs.reallysimple.org/ ), I like Diaspora, I like Friendica, I like Appleseed." -- https://twitter.com/evanpro/status/238117047735832576 |
| 00:57 |
|
pdurbin |
"Am I the only one that thinks Diaspora still has potential? It needs a code overhaul" -- https://twitter.com/canweriotnow/status/238117977185202180 |
| 00:58 |
|
pdurbin |
"I agree with @evanpro in liking Diaspora. Also generally agree we should never discourage any useful solution" -- https://twitter.com/wilkieii/status/238118822115147776 |
| 00:58 |
|
pdurbin |
These are kind of my people, my tribe. |
| 00:58 |
|
pdurbin |
But I don't know where they all hang out. |
| 00:58 |
|
pdurbin |
So they're all welcome to hang out here. :) |
| 01:00 |
|
pdurbin |
Speaking of Dave Winer, I loved hearing him talk to Jeff Atwood and Joel Spolsky at http://blog.stackoverflow.com/2011/11/se-podcast-27-dave-winer/ |
| 01:01 |
|
pdurbin |
It's well worth listening to. |
| 01:02 |
|
pdurbin |
I don't have the exact quote but he says something to the effect of, "you lead me all the way around in a circle and almost had me thinking it's ok to get screwed!" |
| 01:02 |
|
pdurbin |
This was about Facebook. |
| 01:02 |
|
pdurbin |
So Dave talked about his "symphony of software". |
| 01:03 |
|
pdurbin |
And it sounds right up my alley. You own your data, etc. It's a publishing plaform you can read about at http://davewiner.com |
| 01:05 |
|
pdurbin |
I didn't try it out until later though, after I heard his excellent "roadmap-y podcast" - http://scripting.com/stories/2012/09/24/aRoadmapyPodcast.html |
| 01:06 |
|
pdurbin |
It was basically a call to action. Him saying his software is ready enough for more people to try it. |
| 01:06 |
|
pdurbin |
So I did. |
| 01:06 |
|
pdurbin |
It's called "OPML Editor" and I wrote about it here: https://plus.google.com/107770072576338242009/posts/bFaQpQNfb6J |
| 01:07 |
|
pdurbin |
I love the idea of it... I love Dave's description of it. |
| 01:07 |
|
pdurbin |
Clearly it has been a labor of love. |
| 01:07 |
|
pdurbin |
But it just doesn't agree with me. |
| 01:08 |
|
pdurbin |
My biggest objection is that to run it on Linux I have to use Wine. |
| 01:08 |
|
pdurbin |
But the software seems overly complicated to me... a pretty busy GUI. |
| 01:09 |
|
pdurbin |
And what I would want out of it is ownership of my words, control of my data. |
| 01:09 |
|
pdurbin |
but the words I wrote got squirreled away in some weird place: ~/.wine/drive_c/Program\ Files/OPML/Guest\ Databases/ops/OPML\ comments/2012/09/25/todaysPodcast001.opml |
| 01:11 |
|
pdurbin |
Here's my other post about trying to use the OPML Editor and having trouble: https://plus.google.com/107770072576338242009/posts/2PD1C1S3uhC |
| 01:12 |
|
pdurbin |
I prefer simpler solutions. |
| 01:12 |
|
pdurbin |
In the past year or two I've become a big fan of IRC. |
| 01:13 |
|
pdurbin |
I love the pace of IRC. I start up a `screen` session in irssi, join a few channels, chat a bit and wait for replies, sometimes overnight. |
| 01:14 |
|
pdurbin |
I was inspired to post "IRC logging for work notes or as an alternative to Twitter |
| 01:14 |
|
pdurbin |
at https://plus.google.com/107770072576338242009/posts/dZ365p2Qyuk |
| 01:15 |
|
pdurbin |
In the post I mentioned #crimsonfu, a channel I started a little over a year ago. Here's today's log: http://irclog.perlgeek.de/crimsonfu/2013-02-07 |
| 01:15 |
|
pdurbin |
More recently I started http://sourcefu.com but it's just getting off the ground. |
| 01:16 |
|
pdurbin |
And now, http://spanworm.com ... this channel :) |
| 01:16 |
|
pdurbin |
What an odd name, right? |
| 01:16 |
|
pdurbin |
I was grep'ing through /usr/share/dict/words for various short words, "span" being one of them. |
| 01:17 |
|
pdurbin |
I guess I was thinking about connections, about spanning gaps. |
| 01:17 |
|
pdurbin |
Did you know spanworm is another name for an inch worm? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geometer_moth |
| 01:18 |
|
pdurbin |
I didn't. But that's what sold me. I bet I can make something that resembles and inchworm in Inkscape. :) |
| 01:19 |
|
pdurbin |
Anyway, it's just a name. If you liked reading this, please feel free to join in the conversation! |
| 01:19 |
|
pdurbin |
The easiest way is from http://webchat.freenode.net/?channels=spanworm |
| 01:19 |
|
pdurbin |
Thanks. |
| 01:21 |
|
pdurbin |
Oh! I almost forgot! Your data! Your words! Your comments! How are we going to liberate them? Why should you put your precious time into this channel? |
| 01:22 |
|
pdurbin |
... because I back it all up to GitHub, and you're free to have all of it. |
| 01:22 |
|
pdurbin |
MySQL dumps from my IRC logging bot are at https://github.com/pdurbin/data.greptilian.com |
| 01:24 |
|
pdurbin |
And I'll set up a friendlier backup of the content, the plain text, similar to what I do for #crimsonfu: https://github.com/crimsonfu/crimsonfu.github.com/tree/master/irclogs |
| 01:24 |
|
pdurbin |
So the conversation belongs to everyone, to anyone who wants to download it. |
| 04:24 |
|
|
pdurbin joined #spanworm |
| 14:49 |
|
|
shuff joined #spanworm |
| 16:13 |
|
pdurbin |
"Proud to be counted in that number" -- https://twitter.com/evanpro/status/299905671179141120 |
| 16:14 |
|
pdurbin |
... a reply to me thinking about people who might be interested in this channel: https://twitter.com/philipdurbin/status/299696634693054465 |
| 16:15 |
|
pdurbin |
I'm very happy to see that. :) |
| 16:45 |
|
|
canweriotnow joined #spanworm |
| 16:45 |
|
pdurbin |
canweriotnow: welcome! |
| 16:45 |
|
canweriotnow |
howdy, just saw your tweet |
| 16:45 |
|
pdurbin |
nice |
| 17:13 |
|
pdurbin |
canweriotnow: i'd love to hear your take on any of the above |
| 17:27 |
|
canweriotnow |
I definitely like the idea of persistent IRC. |
| 17:27 |
|
pdurbin |
i have a lot of haunts: http://wiki.greptilian.com/haunts :) |
| 17:28 |
|
pdurbin |
dunno if you've seen this: FAQ: Is decentralized Twitter just IRC? (Scripting News) - http://scripting.com/stories/2008/01/18/faqIsDecentralizedTwitterJ.html |
| 17:29 |
|
canweriotnow |
I got into a pretty interesting discussion a couple of years ago, on Facebook, of all places… one of the participants was even planning to use some of her comments as notes for an academic paper… OP got butthurt over a comment and deleted the whole thread. |
| 17:29 |
|
canweriotnow |
So there's definitely a need for this |
| 17:29 |
|
pdurbin |
yeah, in many systems comments are second-class citizens |
| 17:30 |
|
canweriotnow |
"Further, you rarely see trolls or flaming in Twitter, because it doesn't work, just as it doesn't work in blogging." |
| 17:30 |
|
canweriotnow |
I'm following Discourse very closely… looks promising. http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2013/02/civilized-discourse-construction-kit.html |
| 17:31 |
|
pdurbin |
oh yes, see my http://meta.discourse.org/t/libelous-quote-to-reply/724 :) |
| 17:31 |
|
canweriotnow |
ha |
| 17:32 |
|
canweriotnow |
what I think I'd like to see… is a decentralized version of Campfire, rather than Twitter. |
| 17:32 |
|
canweriotnow |
Or some mesh between the two. |
| 17:32 |
|
pdurbin |
i've heard of campfire but never used it |
| 17:32 |
|
canweriotnow |
Play with it some time… it's free for < 5 participants. |
| 17:33 |
|
pdurbin |
can i liberate my data from it? |
| 17:34 |
|
pdurbin |
i like jeff atwood's stuff in general. the other month i was looking at https://shapado.com which is a clone of http://stackoverflow.com . i wrote a little thing to liberate my data from shapado: https://github.com/pdurbin/data-liberation-shapado |
| 17:34 |
|
canweriotnow |
Not in its current incarnation, I don't believe. Which is why I'd like to see an open-source clone. |
| 17:35 |
|
canweriotnow |
neat! |
| 17:35 |
|
pdurbin |
stackoverflow is an example of a system where comments are not second-class. if i comment on someone's question, the person asking the question can't just delete my comment |
| 17:36 |
|
pdurbin |
an admin can come along and delete it, of course |
| 17:36 |
|
canweriotnow |
reddit, too |
| 17:36 |
|
canweriotnow |
I'm pretty sure on reddit you retain you comments even if OP is deleted. |
| 17:38 |
|
pdurbin |
hmm, i've never logged into reddit but i've heard good things |
| 17:39 |
|
canweriotnow |
Every few months I meet people who don't use reddit. I feel like an ethnographer meeting an alien culture :) |
| 17:39 |
|
pdurbin |
:) |
| 17:39 |
|
|
shuff left #spanworm |
| 17:43 |
|
pdurbin |
canweriotnow: Now that i have someone to talk to (thanks!) and to set expectations for everyone who might be new to IRC... the pace of IRC is different than instant messaging. Please expect that people may not reply right away. I'm about to step away but let's please not announce such things usually. |
| 17:44 |
|
canweriotnow |
want to avoid hundreds of lines of brb/afk? |
| 18:13 |
|
pdurbin |
canweriotnow: yes, please |
| 18:14 |
|
pdurbin |
http://campfirenow.com says "Team collaboration with real time chat. Campfire is like instant messaging, but designed exclusively for groups." |
| 18:14 |
|
pdurbin |
sounds like IRC :) |
| 18:14 |
|
canweriotnow |
It's early closer to IRC, but with the ability to embed images, files, etc. |
| 18:14 |
|
canweriotnow |
er, *really, not early |
| 18:15 |
|
pdurbin |
i wonder if it's built on XMPP |
| 18:18 |
|
pdurbin |
canweriotnow: what would decentralized campfire look like? do you just mean you wish it were open source so you could run your own instance? |
| 18:19 |
|
canweriotnow |
well, that, but also, as you just said, building it out over something like XMPP/Jabber, but with more of the interface/features of Campfire |
| 18:19 |
|
canweriotnow |
I can 'own my data' just by logging locally. |
| 18:20 |
|
canweriotnow |
I think many of the goals of Diaspora, but closer to an IRC-plus-media format than a Facebook-a-like |
| 18:20 |
|
pdurbin |
is Discourse close enough to what you want? you can embed images |
| 18:21 |
|
canweriotnow |
It might be… I need to play with it more :) |
| 18:22 |
|
pdurbin |
ok |
| 18:22 |
|
pdurbin |
would like to hear your take on reddit, why you like it |
| 18:28 |
|
canweriotnow |
It's really a mixed bag… some subreddits are great, others are rubbish… |
| 18:28 |
|
pdurbin |
sure but i mean how the system works |
| 18:29 |
|
canweriotnow |
It's not even that the software is that great, but EVERYTHING ends up there, and the karma-whoring community moderation system seems to work well in having the best content rise to the top. |
| 18:29 |
|
canweriotnow |
The thing is, I think it's an anomaly. |
| 18:29 |
|
canweriotnow |
systems like that don't usually work well |
| 18:29 |
|
canweriotnow |
but it does on reddit. |
| 18:30 |
|
canweriotnow |
I'm not entirely sure why :-\ |
| 18:32 |
|
pdurbin |
i'm thinking about "almost all software is social software" -- http://www.jwz.org/doc/groupware.html |
| 18:32 |
|
pdurbin |
linked from http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2008/05/its-clay-shirkys-internet-we-just-live-in-it.html |
| 18:33 |
|
pdurbin |
it's hard to get the incentives right |
| 18:33 |
|
pdurbin |
i was just wondering if reddit had nailed it somehow, in their software |
| 18:35 |
|
pdurbin |
i follow Rob Malda, the founder of http://slashdot.org on Google+ and people are always commenting on his posts saying he nailed it with Slashdot: https://plus.google.com/+CmdrTaco |
| 18:36 |
|
canweriotnow |
Yeah, I've been on slashdot since the late 90's :) |
| 18:37 |
|
canweriotnow |
I think he did nail it for that era... |
| 18:37 |
|
canweriotnow |
but it has its warts… https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CDYQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FGay_Nigger_Association_of_America&ei=hUYVUc-BD_S30AHKxIAI&usg=AFQjCNEC4rFhnQL3gaVAgsMKuZ4PxC38Yw&sig2=0D3iFCCbrszIehL22ZQEYA&bvm=bv.42080656,d.dmQ |
| 18:38 |
|
canweriotnow |
ugh, stupid google urls... |
| 18:38 |
|
canweriotnow |
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gay_Nigger_Association_of_America |
| 18:38 |
|
canweriotnow |
^ slashdot trolls extraordinaire |
| 18:39 |
|
canweriotnow |
it also has a weird blend of official mods and community moderation that doesn't scale well, IMHO |
| 18:50 |
|
pdurbin |
i was on slashdot a lot in the late 90s. not really since. i feel like i get plenty of tech news from other places |
| 18:50 |
|
pdurbin |
following cmdtaco on google+ is great though :) |
| 18:51 |
|
canweriotnow |
yeah, I follow him too |
| 18:53 |
|
pdurbin |
scaling is hard |
| 18:54 |
|
pdurbin |
How do you automate trust? - Discourse - http://meta.discourse.org/t/how-do-you-automate-trust/1785/3 |
| 19:02 |
|
pdurbin |
i guess i should have a plan for if a troll shows up in here but i haven't had to in the other two channels I run: http://irclog.greptilian.com/sourcefu/2013-01-30#i_2413 |
| 19:24 |
|
|
cmdln joined #spanworm |
| 19:25 |
|
pdurbin |
cmdln: welcome! |
| 19:25 |
|
cmdln |
pdurbin: hey |
| 19:43 |
|
pdurbin |
i just made a logo for us: http://spanworm.com |
| 19:44 |
|
pdurbin |
patches welcome: http://git.greptilian.com/?p=wiki.git;a=blob;f=spanworm.com/spanworm-logo.svg |
| 20:04 |
|
pdurbin |
canweriotnow: oh, the other way that comments are first class in stackoverflow is that there's a permalink (anchor) per comment. this is not true of google+ |
| 20:05 |
|
pdurbin |
cmdln: would love to hear your thoughts on any of this |
| 20:06 |
|
cmdln |
pdurbin: sure, as I have time |
| 20:06 |
|
cmdln |
pdurbin: since we started using IRC at work recently, I will mostly be lurking but will try to pipe up |
| 20:06 |
|
pdurbin |
we'll be here :) |
| 20:07 |
|
pdurbin |
snow day in boston. i'm home with my kids. we're supposed to get 2 feet |
