| Time |
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Nick |
Message |
| 02:27 |
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philbot joined #sourcefu |
| 02:27 |
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Topic for #sourcefu is now http://sourcefu.com | logs at http://irclog.greptilian.com/sourcefu/today |
| 02:28 |
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pdurbin joined #sourcefu |
| 03:05 |
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pdurbin |
seems pretty cool: atsaki/termeter: Visualize data in the terminal - https://github.com/atsaki/termeter |
| 03:05 |
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pdurbin |
via http://www.programmingthrowdown.com/2016/10/episode-59-deploying-software.html |
| 07:23 |
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prologic |
pdurbin: you like Go too eh? |
| 07:24 |
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prologic |
dotplus: and to be fair I think the only other solutions that already exist are WebDAV based AFAIK |
| 07:24 |
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prologic |
and there isn't a lot of good modern/up-to-date support for WebDAV seems a bit of a dead protocol |
| 11:47 |
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pdurbin |
prologic: I'm sort of looking for a project written in Go to contribute to. |
| 16:13 |
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pdurbin |
huh, "The Case Against Python 3... This document serves as a collection of reasons why beginners should avoid Python 3 as of November 22nd, 2016." https://learnpythonthehardway.org/book/nopython3.html |
| 16:14 |
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pdurbin |
via https://botbot.me/freenode/positivepython/msg/76915505/ |
| 16:20 |
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pdurbin |
wow, "There is a high probability that Python 3 is such a failure it will kill Python." |
| 16:52 |
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pdurbin |
some interesting discussion over there in #positivepython |
| 17:09 |
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aditsu |
wat! |
| 17:11 |
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aditsu |
"Python 3 Is Not Turing Complete" - ok that's just bullshit |
| 17:17 |
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aditsu |
I think the author simply doesn't know what they're talking about |
| 17:24 |
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pdurbin |
in general, I think Zed knows what he's talking about |
| 17:25 |
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aditsu |
pretty much all the arguments are utter crap; beginners would never use "bytes(something)" |
| 17:26 |
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pdurbin |
he's saying Python 3 isn't as friendly to beginners as Python 2 |
| 17:26 |
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pdurbin |
usability matters |
| 17:26 |
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aditsu |
and I totally disagree |
| 17:27 |
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aditsu |
how is it less friendly? |
| 17:28 |
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aditsu |
the author obviously doesn't understand the meaning of Turing completeness, and of static typing |
| 17:31 |
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aditsu |
I would argue that Python 3 is more friendly to beginners, because 3/2 = 1.5 :) |
| 17:31 |
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pdurbin |
"Every time you attempt to deal with characters in your programs you'll have to understand the difference between byte sequences and Unicode strings." |
| 17:31 |
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pdurbin |
that's under "Difficult To Use Strings" |
| 17:32 |
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aditsu |
and that's totally wrong - beginners will happily use strings without knowing anything about byte sequences |
| 17:33 |
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aditsu |
print("hello " + "world") # no understanding of byte sequences, unicode and encodings required |
| 17:34 |
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aditsu |
strings are really easy to use, as they've always been |
| 18:16 |
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pdurbin |
What about this example: python3 -c "import subprocess;f = open( 'out.txt', 'a+' );f.write('the date is now: ');plaintext = subprocess.check_output(['date']);f.write (plaintext + '\n');f.close();" |
| 18:17 |
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pdurbin |
It blows up with "TypeError: can't concat bytes to str" |
| 18:22 |
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aditsu |
the file part is not necessary for the example; and I'd argue that subprocess is not really a beginner thing (I don't think I ever used it myself btw) |
| 18:29 |
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pdurbin |
Ah, you're right, the example can be shortened to this: python3 -c "import subprocess;plaintext = subprocess.check_output(['date']);print('the date is now: ' + plaintext + '\n');" |
| 18:30 |
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pdurbin |
And you get a slightly different error when it blows up: TypeError: Can't convert 'bytes' object to str implicitly |
| 18:30 |
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pdurbin |
This example comes from http://stackoverflow.com/questions/21916888/cant-concat-bytes-to-str |
| 18:37 |
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aditsu |
you get the same error with print(plaintext+'\n') |
| 18:40 |
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pdurbin |
yeah |
| 18:40 |
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pdurbin |
Here's another example: python3 -c "from urllib.request import urlopen; print('content: ' + urlopen('https://pythonclock.org').read())" |
| 18:40 |
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pdurbin |
maybe `urlopen` is used more often than `subprocess` |
| 18:41 |
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pdurbin |
The urlopen example comes from http://stackoverflow.com/questions/16699362/python3-error-typeerror-cant-convert-bytes-object-to-str-implicitly |
| 18:45 |
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aditsu |
well, when you deal with program output or web page content, it is important to have an understanding of encodings, because what you get is really a bunch of bytes rather than a string |
| 18:45 |
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pdurbin |
yeah |
| 18:45 |
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pdurbin |
I'm just trying to think of something more complicated than "hello world" that might trip up a beginner. |
| 18:46 |
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aditsu |
with python 2, people would be lost when they get a bunch of junk instead of foreign-language characters or emojis or whatnot |
| 18:49 |
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pdurbin |
ok |
| 19:28 |
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pdurbin |
So should I invest time in Python? Or use other languages? I'm tempted to just keep one eye on https://pythonclock.org to see when Python 2 goes End Of Life (3ish year from now) and the other eye on the adoption numbers of Python 3 to see when most people have switched to Python 3. |
| 19:50 |
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aditsu |
use what you want (or need) to use; I think it's important to know a little python since it's a nice and popular language, but it's up to you how much time to invest in it, and I don't think the python 3 adoption rate is relevant |
| 20:07 |
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pdurbin |
yeah, it's a nice language |
| 20:08 |
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pdurbin |
I would think it would matter if it's 2020 and Python 2 is EOL ( there will be bugfix releases until 2020 ) and Python 3 adoption is still low. It would't bode well for the future of the language. |
| 20:54 |
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aditsu |
https://hynek.me/articles/python3-2016/ |
| 20:54 |
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aditsu |
"My completely anecdotal view on the state of Python 3 in 2016" |
| 21:23 |
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pdurbin |
nice post |
