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IRC log for #rest, 2015-03-09

#rest on freenode has been logged here from May 2014 until end of July 2018 but logging has been suspended because the channel has been riddled with spam since August 2018 with no end in site. See the following blog posts about the problem:

Until the spam problem has been dealt with and logging can resume, please visit our wiki at https://trygvis.io/rest-wiki/

Thanks.

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time S Nick Message
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12:41 pdurbin I think I'm convincing myself we should put a version number for our API right in the URL like Twitter and Trello do: https://github.com/IQSS/dataverse/issues/411
12:46 trygvis boo! :)
12:47 pdurbin trygvis: you like the way GitHub does it better? "By default, all requests receive the v3 version of the API. We encourage you to explicitly request this version via the Accept header."
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12:47 pdurbin "Important: The default version of the API may change in the future. If you're building an application and care about the stability of the API, be sure to request a specific version in the Accept header as shown in the examples below."
12:50 trygvis no, that is even worse
12:51 trygvis the first thing to do is to specify that the resources can add stuff as they see fit
12:52 trygvis that will often fix most problems, in the most extreme case a v2 consumer can just look at fields starting with "2", or are inside the "2" object
12:53 trygvis they way I see it is that if the data changes so fundamentally that it requires a totally new kind, you probably need a new link to it anyway
12:54 trygvis IMO it is more in line with Postel said back in the days
12:55 trygvis http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc1122#section-1.2.2
12:56 pdurbin the ol' Robustness Principle
12:56 trygvis yep
12:56 trygvis I see the appeal with versioned URLs when you don't get clients to follow links
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13:06 daxim where can I find further information about the ISINDEX format (accessible via the query_keyword method in the Perl URI module)?  rfc 3986 just says "pchar" for any kind of query parameter, which is not helpful
13:06 pdurbin I see the appeal of versioned URLs too.
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13:13 trygvis daxim: I can't find anything about isindex in rfc3986
13:13 daxim that's what I said
13:15 trygvis uhm, so you're asking about something in a perl module?
13:15 trygvis try #perl
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13:15 jsys _ollie: hi
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13:16 daxim I'm not asking about a perl module
13:17 trygvis then I have no idea what you are asking about :)
13:17 daxim I'm asking about the ISINDEX format
13:17 daxim is it different than www-urlencoded
13:17 trygvis where did you hear about this format?
13:18 daxim I heard about it in the documentation for the Perl URI module
13:18 trygvis can you give me an url so I can read it too?
13:19 daxim https://metacpan.org/pod/URI#uri-query_keywords
13:19 trygvis I can't find any mention of "isindex" on that page
13:19 daxim method query_form processes x-www-form-urlencoded, query_keywords processes isindex
13:20 jsys so I've been reading the HTTP specs like novels.
13:20 jsys Starting from HTTP 0.9 in 1991
13:20 jsys And I'm not completely disillusioned this thing is a cohesive piece of work with some grand design in it.
13:21 jsys It's patchwork at best, and that's not bad because maybe that's the only way to get work done.
13:21 jsys But it kinda shrinks the REST concept as "the web is REST" more to "Fielding tried to see HTTP as REST, but it's not"
13:21 jsys So it's a design that was meant to last decades as his paper said, but it was stillborn
13:21 pdurbin jsys: um. you're kind of interrupting daxim and trygvis. can you please hold for a few minutes?
13:22 jsys I suppose cookies were a bad sign he himself noted
13:22 trygvis daxim: I still can't find any reference to isindex so I don't understand what you're asking about. I can't find anything about the "isindex" format
13:22 trygvis the query_form stuff seems to be some conventions that perl's URI parser has
13:22 trygvis sorry, query_keywords
13:25 daxim that would run counter to my expectations, the authors don't just to make up conventions, all the rest of the web infrastructure modules follow rfcs/standards
13:26 trygvis well, find me a reference to where where 'ISINDEX' is written and I'll try to find out more
13:27 daxim we can still find plenty of documents talking about the hypermedia control and how it's used, but not the exact format
13:33 jsys daxim, trygvis: if following a standard mattered, it'd have actual tangible impact, like "hundreds of clients who understand isindex won't understand my service if I use it wrong". Is there such an effect? No. So it's an inactive and/or dead standard. Not worth performing exegesis on.
13:37 jsys As a general rule of you need to perform exegesis on an idea or technique or a protocol, you're wasting your time
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16:27 whartung Pretty sure if you have to use the word 'exegesis' in casual conversation, you're wasting your time.
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16:31 whartung pdurbin: that "containerless" article is interesting, but, I dunno…hard to see anything "container free" today.
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16:43 pdurbin everything is a container he seems to say. your laptop is a container :)
16:45 whartung yea I didn't read it in detail, but I cite things like DropWizard.
16:46 whartung is DW "lightweight" compared to, say, Glassfish? Sure.
16:46 whartung I've been struggling with this problem, just to "lighten up" my applications.
16:47 pdurbin does this mirror make my war look fat?
16:47 whartung mirror.jar
16:49 whartung size of jars isn't how I measure weight, it's more cognitive weight of the "oh no, what now" factor
16:50 pdurbin yeah. you need moar microservices, apparently
16:51 whartung yea, somehow publishing 100 seperate "applicaitons", all in their own process, is "better". Especially if I have each one wrapped in a container wrapped in a VM...
16:58 fumanchu until performance
17:09 whartung yea I thought we figured out remote calls weren't the bee knees 10 years ago
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17:29 saml do you like json?
17:29 saml http://stackoverflow.com/questions/21120999/representing-null-in-json  is there good practice for this?
17:29 saml looks like for arrays at least, people prefer {"x":[]}  instead of {}
17:30 saml for many other values, they just omit the property all together from json
17:31 saml let's say in xml...  <data><title>foo</title><images></images></data>    vs.  <data><title>foo</title></data>
17:47 trygvis saml: in my DTOs I always initialize arrays to empty arrays so I know that they're always non-null, and let the deserializer handle whatever comes in
17:47 trygvis when integration systems it's often useful to say that missing, null and empty array all mean the same
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19:21 saml trygvis, thanks
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19:30 jsys So, is it RESTful to deprecate a resource.
19:31 jsys X-Deprecated: "This resource is goin doooooooooooooown"
19:39 saml sure
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| Channels | #rest index | Today | | Search | Google Search | Plain-Text | plain, newest first | summary

#rest on freenode has been logged here from May 2014 until end of July 2018 but logging has been suspended because the channel has been riddled with spam since August 2018 with no end in site. See the following blog posts about the problem:

Until the spam problem has been dealt with and logging can resume, please visit our wiki at https://trygvis.io/rest-wiki/

Thanks.