| Time |
S |
Nick |
Message |
| 00:01 |
|
sfisque |
bascially you'd have to build a factory that loaded the class, reflected it to discover it's dependencies, and then assemble the dependencies either view "new" or Class.newInstance() calls |
| 00:02 |
|
sfisque |
and then return the assembled instance of the class, which is what EE, spring, tapestry,etc. do for you |
| 00:02 |
|
Quest |
hm |
| 00:02 |
|
Quest |
simple EE also? |
| 00:04 |
|
Quest |
sfisque, so if spring is just making "new" instances of classes at the back end. whats marvolous about it? dont get pissed of with that silly comment. |
| 00:04 |
|
Quest |
but that makes me thing as I dont know what happens in depdth |
| 00:04 |
|
Quest |
are my emotions just? |
| 00:05 |
|
sfisque |
lol not at all. essentially, think of it this way, there are only 3 ways to instantiate an object. "new" or Class.newInstance(), deserialize a serialized instance, or call the undocumented sun stream assembler which turns an arbitrary byte stream into a class instance. |
| 00:06 |
|
sfisque |
so "someone" has to do the work. DI just releaves you of having to new the instance dependencies and have them "auto populated" for you |
| 00:06 |
|
Quest |
oh |
| 00:07 |
|
Quest |
so development should be done via frameworks only. not like the raw way? ever? |
| 00:07 |
|
sfisque |
which in a pooled environment helps maintain a lower memory footprint because you can "reuse" already instantiated instances |
| 00:07 |
|
Quest |
hm. got the idea |
| 00:07 |
|
Quest |
will read more. |
| 00:08 |
|
sfisque |
pretty much. explicit "new"-ing is still necessary "somewhere". either you're doing it explicitly, or some framework is doing it for you |
| 00:08 |
|
Quest |
hm |
| 00:08 |
|
Quest |
how long people make it to learn spring at an average level |
| 00:08 |
|
Quest |
? |
| 00:09 |
|
sfisque |
pretty quickly, once you have it up and running |
| 00:09 |
|
sfisque |
in the end, it's just java. the only thing you have to let go of is the desire to call "new X()" since the container is doing it for you |
| 00:09 |
|
Quest |
hm. thats contrary to me then |
| 00:10 |
|
Quest |
ok. |
| 00:12 |
|
sfisque |
in a CDI context, all you'd have to remember is to annotate your dependencies with @Inject, like, class A { @Inject X x; } and when you get a reference for A from the container, it also populates A.x for you. |
| 00:12 |
|
Quest |
hm. |
| 00:13 |
|
Quest |
wont @service do similar? |
| 00:13 |
|
sfisque |
yes. @Inject is CDI specific. @Service is EE specific |
| 00:14 |
|
sfisque |
same for @Resource, @PersistenceContext , @EJB, etc. |
| 00:14 |
|
Quest |
they do same thing ? almost? |
| 00:14 |
|
sfisque |
you can even create your own anotation and build a factory to "fake it" if you wanted |
| 00:14 |
|
Quest |
hm!! |
| 00:14 |
|
Quest |
they do same thing ? almost? |
| 00:14 |
|
sfisque |
pretty much. they just do specific magic for those "types" of injecttions |
| 00:15 |
|
sfisque |
@PersistenceContext and @EJB also have to wire into the JTA handlers |
| 00:15 |
|
sfisque |
@Resource can also, if the JCA provider is XA aware |
| 00:16 |
|
Quest |
sfisque, I think you like spring more than any other framework? |
| 00:17 |
|
sfisque |
hardly. IMO spring is a disease |
| 00:17 |
|
sfisque |
but it has its uses |
| 00:17 |
|
Quest |
why would you say that? |
| 00:17 |
|
Quest |
what do you prefer then? |
| 00:18 |
|
Quest |
why would you quote it as a disease? |
| 00:18 |
|
sfisque |
if you're writing a webapp that needs ACID and separation of concerns, EE gives you most of what spring does. unless you're using one of the specialized spring libraries (batch, i/o, etc.) |
| 00:18 |
|
sfisque |
because if you do not monitor library usage, i've seen teams over leverage spring when they already had what they needed from the underlying platform (websphere, jboss, glassfish, etc.) |
| 00:19 |
|
sfisque |
if you're targeting a servlet container (jrun, tomcat, etc.) spring is a nice layer of abstraction. if you are targeting a "real container", it's mostly kruft |
| 00:20 |
|
whartung |
There are two "enterprise" frameworks in Java, one is JEE, the other is Spring. Springs is more invidious - once you use some, you get to use all…you pull a thread that touches Spring and you get a lot of sweater with it. |
| 00:20 |
|
Quest |
hm |
| 00:20 |
|
sfisque |
exactly! |
| 00:20 |
|
whartung |
Spring was a fine crucible back in 2001 |
| 00:20 |
|
whartung |
and it has helped propel JEE to where it is today. |
| 00:20 |
|
Quest |
hm. i agree. |
| 00:21 |
|
whartung |
but JEE is better in that it's simpler, and has several implementation both free and pay. |
| 00:21 |
|
sfisque |
very much so. spring + hibernate has been the driving force of what evolved EE from 2.x to 3.x |
| 00:21 |
|
whartung |
yea, hibernate is awful also :) |
| 00:21 |
|
Quest |
spring is a whole new config for Java. new style |
| 00:21 |
|
sfisque |
personally, i like hibernate's JPA impl better than others. eclipselink has too many "features" |
| 00:21 |
|
Quest |
sfisque, whartung so JavaEE can do all that Spring does. why dont people use JavaEE then? |
| 00:22 |
|
sfisque |
fear |
| 00:22 |
|
Quest |
fear of ? |
| 00:22 |
|
sfisque |
they remember 1.x and 2.x EE |
| 00:22 |
|
Quest |
the current version is? |
| 00:22 |
|
sfisque |
pre 3.x , EE was a configuration beast |
| 00:22 |
|
sfisque |
3.1.. 3.2 is imminent |
| 00:22 |
|
Quest |
I use JavaEE 6 |
| 00:22 |
|
whartung |
No, it can't. Spring does more. JEE, however solves 90+% of the issue, Spring solves 110% of the issue. Java EE is able to take the whole that is spring and take the "good parts" out, making them easier to use and work with |
| 00:22 |
|
sfisque |
that's 3.1 |
| 00:22 |
|
Quest |
7 is out |
| 00:23 |
|
sfisque |
sorry, 6 == 3.0, 7 == 3.1 |
| 00:23 |
|
sfisque |
having to juggle too much in my head atm |
| 00:23 |
|
whartung |
Spring and Hibernate folks can't stop messing with it, and features and flexibility breeds complexity |
| 00:23 |
|
Quest |
oh |
| 00:23 |
|
whartung |
anyone saying JEE is complex has no refuge in Spring |
| 00:24 |
|
sfisque |
spring has some nice "add ons" like the spring-batch library. but you really cant leverage it without adopting the rest of the sweater, to use whartung's analogy |
| 00:24 |
|
whartung |
correct |
| 00:24 |
|
whartung |
yet, JEE is working on a new Batch library as well |
| 00:24 |
|
whartung |
(and I've already written mine :) ) |
| 00:24 |
|
sfisque |
hopefully it's JCA compliant :P |
| 00:25 |
|
whartung |
and the EG will take a look at Springs and clean it up and take the nice parts and make it really usable with good flexibility |
| 00:25 |
|
sfisque |
i found it funny that they relaxed the "file i/o" restriction in 3.2. instead of "never" it's "must exercise caution" |
| 00:25 |
|
Quest |
whartung, sfisque so all that spring does, can be done in JavaEE. DI and AOP and all that stuff. am... briefly pointing to some strategies. how? |
| 00:25 |
|
whartung |
it will fail on one odd use case that 1 person ever cared about and became a first class concept in Springs |
| 00:25 |
|
whartung |
haha -- that's funny |
| 00:25 |
|
sfisque |
pretty much Q |
| 00:27 |
|
sfisque |
just wait until stackoverflow starts getting barraged with postings about transaction deadlocks because someone's doing file i/o on a NAS that disappears and they forgot to manage the transaction boundary explicitly |
| 00:27 |
|
Quest |
I mean . when I used to ask questions about jsp and servlets. people said that no one uses them any more. go use a framework. it was an image that what frameworks do cant be done manully without hardwork every time for every project |
| 00:27 |
|
sfisque |
you had a tough crowd it would appear |
| 00:27 |
|
pdurbin |
jeez, I bike home and you folks have been chatting away |
| 00:27 |
|
whartung |
I never suggest a framework to someone who is new to this stuff |
| 00:28 |
|
sfisque |
frameworks are great, but they forgot that "newbies" need to learn "how" before they start leveraging stuff |
| 00:28 |
|
sfisque |
pdurbin: ROFL |
| 00:28 |
|
Quest |
whartung, ya. thats my mistake to learn faster. to jump to frameworks. but I have build some plain javaee apps in servlets and jsps |
| 00:28 |
|
whartung |
it's insane to start there, because all the frameworks do is abstract the raw Servlets and JSP -- and just because you don't actually use them doesn't mean you're not responsible for understanding them |
| 00:29 |
|
whartung |
the Servlets and JSP are very leaky abstractions that the frameworks mostly fail to contain |
| 00:29 |
|
sfisque |
that's the way to learn. before EE really existed you basically had to roll your own stuff |
| 00:29 |
|
Quest |
ya |
| 00:29 |
|
Quest |
glad i have done some development in servlets then |
| 00:29 |
|
Quest |
whartung, sfisque so all that spring does, can be done in JavaEE. DI and AOP and all that stuff. am... briefly pointing to some strategies. how? |
| 00:30 |
|
whartung |
I have to run off... |
| 00:30 |
|
pdurbin |
someone was telling me http://jforum.net is powered entirely by a the servlet API. might be a good introduction to servlets, which are a core part of Java EE |
| 00:30 |
|
sfisque |
all that's different is the actual linkages. EE has it's own annotations and mechanisms, spring has others, but they do essentially the same thing |
| 00:31 |
|
whartung |
JSP is the finest page markup language on the planet -- nothing comes close to JSP in terms of power for page markup. It's really good and under appreciated. |
| 00:31 |
|
Quest |
whartung, nice to meet you! |
| 00:31 |
|
sfisque |
aye. if you want to dive into EE, it's best to learn the core techs first, servlet, jsp, jndi, jdbc, jms. those will give you 90% of the underpinnings of EE |
| 00:31 |
|
whartung |
yup |
| 00:31 |
|
Quest |
one point i want to mention. |
| 00:32 |
|
Quest |
frameworks can never be as fast as Javaee servlet based apps |
| 00:32 |
|
Quest |
because servlets use threads for each request |
| 00:32 |
|
sfisque |
that is a question that has no right or wrong answer |
| 00:32 |
|
whartung |
out the door, tt all |
| 00:32 |
|
Quest |
frameworks like spring are based on servlets but use instanciations. for each request |
| 00:33 |
|
sfisque |
you can easily write an EE app that performs like a dog. same for spring. all depends on 1) understanding the language, 2) understanding the platform, 3) not doing bad things |
| 00:33 |
|
pdurbin |
sfisque: right, I've been trying to learn JPA here: https://github.com/pdurbin/java-jpa-tutorial |
| 00:33 |
|
Quest |
the main advantages i see of frameworks is code maintainability |
| 00:34 |
|
sfisque |
yes. maintainance has a HUGE ROI in enterprise. you lose alot of dev hours maintaining bad code |
| 00:34 |
|
Quest |
so all that spring does, can be done in JavaEE. DI and AOP and all that stuff. am... briefly pointing to some strategies. how? |
| 00:34 |
|
sfisque |
and on that note, i have to bounce so i can commute home |
| 00:34 |
|
Quest |
ok. |
| 00:35 |
|
sfisque |
the differences are in configuration. they use different annotations and different xml descriptors.. other than that, it's pretty much the same boilerplate wise |
| 00:35 |
|
sfisque |
TTYL |
| 00:35 |
|
Quest |
really. can you point me with some keywords |
| 00:35 |
|
Quest |
so i can search on it |
| 00:36 |
|
sfisque |
google: javaee spring differences xml anotations |
| 00:36 |
|
sfisque |
that should be a good starting point |
| 00:36 |
|
sfisque |
maybe add "comparison" to the list |
| 00:36 |
|
pdurbin |
that reminds me... I need to send another bot in here for google searches :) |
| 00:36 |
|
sfisque |
:-D |
| 00:37 |
|
Quest |
thanks! |
| 00:37 |
|
sfisque |
/hops behind the sofa, and jumps out the open window... |
| 00:37 |
|
Quest |
:) pleasure |
| 00:54 |
|
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| 01:15 |
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| 01:18 |
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| 01:18 |
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| 01:19 |
|
Quest |
sfisque, I would recommend a bot who can op you. as oping is not permenent flag. have to do manually |
| 01:19 |
|
Quest |
i cannot acces flags yet |
| 01:20 |
|
sfisque1 |
i'll see what i can do. other than "using" i'm a irc newb |
| 01:20 |
|
Quest |
oh ok. what ever suits you. |
| 01:20 |
|
Quest |
just a suggestion. |
| 01:20 |
|
sfisque1 |
aye |
| 01:21 |
|
sfisque1 |
i'll do some research and "get learned" :P |
| 01:21 |
|
Quest |
ill be around |
| 01:21 |
|
Quest |
ya. good to know your tools :) |
| 02:30 |
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| 02:39 |
|
sfisque |
mode +o sfisque |
| 02:39 |
|
sfisque |
hrm chanserv demoted me |
| 02:40 |
|
sfisque |
bummer |
| 04:16 |
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| 05:54 |
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| 05:55 |
|
neuro_sys |
Hello. |
| 05:56 |
|
sfisque |
greetings |
| 05:59 |
|
neuro_sys |
good to see the channel started to get going! |
| 06:00 |
|
neuro_sys |
it was high time the server needed a java ee specific channel. |
| 06:00 |
|
sfisque |
aye. the paints still fresh :P |
| 08:49 |
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| 10:58 |
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pdurbin |
neuro_sys: glad you could make it |
| 11:22 |
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| 15:25 |
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| 15:26 |
|
clevasseur |
Hi ! i can't have the "updatetool" working under a fresh Linux install. The error message is : UnicodeDecodeError: 'ascii' codec can't decode byte 0xc3 in position 74: ordinal not in range(128). Any idea ? |
| 15:29 |
|
sfisque |
never seen that. did you ask in #netbeans since it's more general question? |
| 15:30 |
|
sfisque |
what locale are you using in your X ennvironment |
| 15:39 |
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| 15:46 |
|
pdurbin |
clevasseur: what is this updatetool? |
| 15:48 |
|
whartung |
it may be a glass fish thing |
| 15:50 |
|
pdurbin |
ah |
| 15:54 |
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| 15:56 |
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DestinyAwaits joined ##javaee |
| 15:56 |
|
DestinyAwaits |
Hey Guys |
| 15:56 |
|
whartung |
hello |
| 15:57 |
|
DestinyAwaits |
what is this about? |
| 15:57 |
|
DestinyAwaits |
I mean the channel? |
| 15:57 |
|
whartung |
I have no idea |
| 15:57 |
|
whartung |
I would expect Java Enterprise Edition |
| 15:57 |
|
DestinyAwaits |
really? |
| 15:57 |
|
pdurbin |
neuro_sys: you're the founder :) |
| 15:57 |
|
DestinyAwaits |
I mean you are a operator |
| 15:57 |
|
whartung |
yea, I won OP lotto |
| 15:59 |
|
DestinyAwaits |
hehe |
| 15:59 |
|
DestinyAwaits |
make me one |
| 15:59 |
|
DestinyAwaits |
please |
| 15:59 |
|
DestinyAwaits |
:) |
| 15:59 |
|
DestinyAwaits |
neuro_sys: really? Great.. |
| 16:00 |
|
DestinyAwaits |
Guys I certainly do have a question |
| 16:00 |
|
DestinyAwaits |
just wanna know who all are actually active here |
| 16:00 |
|
whartung |
afaict this topic is 2 days old. |
| 16:00 |
|
whartung |
so, hard to say |
| 16:01 |
|
DestinyAwaits |
ok |
| 16:01 |
|
Quest |
you guys know neuro_sys |
| 16:01 |
|
Quest |
? |
| 16:01 |
|
whartung |
nope |
| 16:01 |
|
DestinyAwaits |
yep |
| 16:02 |
|
neuro_sys |
hi, just back home |
| 16:02 |
|
neuro_sys |
Quest is actually more like the founder |
| 16:02 |
|
DestinyAwaits |
heylo mate neuro_sys |
| 16:02 |
|
neuro_sys |
hi DestinyAwaits |
| 16:02 |
|
DestinyAwaits |
whats going on |
| 16:02 |
|
DestinyAwaits |
mate long time no see |
| 16:03 |
|
neuro_sys |
nothing, regular stuff, to work and back home |
| 16:03 |
|
Quest |
neuro_sys, no :) thats humble of you. I am Just maintaining the channel. The idea was mine though :) |
| 16:03 |
|
kobain |
i don't know |
| 16:03 |
|
DestinyAwaits |
ah ok |
| 16:03 |
|
neuro_sys |
##java is just too much about java language related questions rather than APIs available out there |
| 16:04 |
|
DestinyAwaits |
many please aorund now |
| 16:04 |
|
DestinyAwaits |
I just wanted to know |
| 16:04 |
|
whartung |
I thought ##java was about grammar, and going to extreme lengths to not answer anything. |
| 16:04 |
|
DestinyAwaits |
anyone of you contributing to any open source project? |
| 16:04 |
|
neuro_sys |
and java ee has got a bunch of stuff worth having a channel of its own for discussion on the big picture perhaps |
| 16:04 |
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| 16:04 |
|
mike4_ |
uhm |
| 16:04 |
|
Quest |
neuro_sys, ya. and their attitude is rude too |
| 16:04 |
|
Quest |
that wont happen here |
| 16:04 |
|
DestinyAwaits |
hmm |
| 16:04 |
|
mike4_ |
can you please stop spamming Qyest |
| 16:04 |
|
neuro_sys |
agreed |
| 16:04 |
|
Quest |
mike4_, hey |
| 16:04 |
|
mike4_ |
Quest: |
| 16:05 |
|
mike4_ |
or I will report you with freenode thx. |
| 16:05 |
|
Quest |
report what? |
| 16:05 |
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neuro_sys |
better not message the same person twice |
| 16:05 |
|
Quest |
oh |
| 16:05 |
|
neuro_sys |
if that's what mike4_'s complaining |
| 16:06 |
|
neuro_sys |
I don't know. |
| 16:06 |
|
DestinyAwaits |
Hello Guys |
| 16:06 |
|
Quest |
people are just use the buzzz word now . "spam" |
| 16:06 |
|
DestinyAwaits |
I just wanted to know if you are contributing to any opensource projects? |
| 16:06 |
|
neuro_sys |
DestinyAwaits: I do not, although I have little personal projects up in github |
| 16:07 |
|
neuro_sys |
mostly useless though :) |
| 16:07 |
|
DestinyAwaits |
ah ok |
| 16:07 |
|
DestinyAwaits |
really is it useless |
| 16:07 |
|
DestinyAwaits |
? |
| 16:07 |
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| 16:07 |
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neuro_sys |
yeah, unfortunately all the useful stuff works to the company I work for |
| 16:07 |
|
neuro_sys |
s/works/goes/ |
| 16:07 |
|
DestinyAwaits |
I mean I was sitting doing nothing and I really wanted to try this thing |
| 16:08 |
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| 16:08 |
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DestinyAwaits |
ok |
| 16:08 |
|
DestinyAwaits |
neuro_sys: what you suggest then |
| 16:09 |
|
neuro_sys |
suggest for what? an open source project idea? |
| 16:09 |
|
mike4_ |
im in ##java already |
| 16:09 |
|
DestinyAwaits |
anything neuro_sys that will imporve my coding skills |
| 16:09 |
|
DestinyAwaits |
etc |
| 16:09 |
|
DestinyAwaits |
just wanted to learn |
| 16:09 |
|
DestinyAwaits |
nothing else |
| 16:10 |
|
Quest |
mike4_, no one is forcing you to join ##javaee . only when you need to. its EE specific |
| 16:10 |
|
Quest |
mike4_, either way . you welcome |
| 16:10 |
|
clevasseur |
yes, this is the updatetool from glassfish |
| 16:10 |
|
neuro_sys |
ah, coding a lot and reading other people's code and reading as much books and specs as possible. that's about it. |
| 16:10 |
|
DestinyAwaits |
hmm |
| 16:11 |
|
DestinyAwaits |
but neuro_sys don't you think coding in a real env.. is more chanllenging then doing something of our own? |
| 16:11 |
|
whartung |
you could desk in #glassfish clevasseur, but I couldn't answer your question over there either. I've not used update tool. |
| 16:11 |
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neuro_sys |
DestinyAwaits: are you not employed as a programmer? |
| 16:11 |
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| 16:11 |
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DestinyAwaits |
yes |
| 16:11 |
|
DestinyAwaits |
true |
| 16:12 |
|
clevasseur |
Ok, i'll ask in #glassfish and/or #netbeans. Thanks you ! |
| 16:12 |
|
whartung |
the only difference between doing your own stuff and "real" stuff is time pressure, and "real" stuff tends to have more "stuff I don't like to do" |
| 16:12 |
|
whartung |
yw clevasseur |
| 16:13 |
|
DestinyAwaits |
neuro_sys: I still code good.. that you can know from #jsf already |
| 16:14 |
|
neuro_sys |
I see that you're quite active in the channel, yes |
| 16:16 |
|
neuro_sys |
oh, there's a guy here I know who knows his stuff. |
| 16:16 |
|
* neuro_sys |
points at the silent figure sitting across the room |
| 16:16 |
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neuro_sys |
zoot here too :P |
| 16:17 |
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DestinyAwaits |
well zoot is universal |
| 16:17 |
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zoot |
ofc |
| 16:17 |
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DestinyAwaits |
he is everywhere |
| 16:17 |
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DestinyAwaits |
even in the parallel |
| 16:17 |
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DestinyAwaits |
:) |
| 16:23 |
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connor_goodwolf |
I'd recommend you fellows stop spamming people to join the channel, you're starting to acquire negative attention. |
| 16:30 |
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sfisque |
@conner noted (not that i was doing that, but at least on record in the chat log) :-) |
| 16:32 |
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connor_goodwolf |
sfisque: Quest is annoyingly PMing everyone from ##java |
| 16:32 |
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Quest |
connor_goodwolf, how many messages did you got? |
| 16:32 |
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connor_goodwolf |
you didn't message me on this account |
| 16:33 |
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connor_goodwolf |
1 |
| 16:33 |
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Quest |
and you call that spam? what was the message? |
| 16:33 |
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clevasseur |
As "updatetool" doesn't work for me, can you tell me where can i download the Java EE 7 Tutorial Examples ? |
| 16:34 |
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clevasseur |
please |
| 16:36 |
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connor_goodwolf |
Quest: "Quest hi, Join ##JavaEE and meet polite and reasonable people" |
| 16:37 |
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DestinyAwaits |
zoot: zoot zoot Hello Internet |
| 16:38 |
|
Quest |
connor_goodwolf, Information : New Channel Formed relevent to you interests: Hi, Join ##JavaEE for Java Enterprise Discussions. Under Bill s.1618 Title III passed by the 105th U.S. An email or messagge cannot be considered Spam as long as we include contact information and a remove link / way for removal from our mailing list / message list. To be removed from our mailing list / message list reply with "remove" |
| 16:38 |
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* Quest |
signing off. |
| 16:39 |
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connor_goodwolf |
Quest: you already have a bad rep from ##java. Many believe you to be some dumb asshat, so when you say "polite and reasonable" people are laughing bitches. https://imageshack.us/a/img46/1884/qvnm.jpg |
| 16:39 |
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DestinyAwaits |
Great |
| 16:39 |
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DestinyAwaits |
Well I deserve an op position? Quest |
| 16:39 |
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connor_goodwolf was kicked by ChanServ: User is banned from this channel |
| 16:40 |
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whartung |
bbl all |
| 16:40 |
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DestinyAwaits |
deserved.. :) |
| 16:41 |
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Quest left ##javaee |
| 16:41 |
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sfisque |
@cleva did you install netbeans from the netbeans.org installer or via a distro release? |
| 16:42 |
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clevasseur |
sfisque : from netbeans.org |
| 16:42 |
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sfisque |
ok. just checking because there have been "updatetool" issues reported at times with distro releases of netbeans |
| 16:43 |
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sfisque |
i had to jump to commute before. i didnt see your response to my query about your locale setting in X environemtn |
| 16:43 |
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clevasseur |
sorry |
| 16:43 |
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clevasseur |
my locale is LANG=fr_FR.UTF-8 |
| 16:44 |
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sfisque |
hrm.. does netbeans have "localized" versions on the download page? you might have a locale issue from what i recall of the error you shared |
| 16:45 |
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clevasseur |
as far as i remember, i've downloaded the "ml" version |
| 16:46 |
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sfisque |
kk . well.. i'm stumped then (not surprising) i've never had to install netbeans on a non-EN environment. does anyone else in the channel have exp with non-EN locales and netbeans? |
| 16:46 |
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clevasseur |
oups, i've not downloaded a "ml" version |
| 16:46 |
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sfisque |
ah. give the ML version a shot and see if the problem persists |
| 16:47 |
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clevasseur |
anyway, i can probably switch locale in the Konsole running updatetool |
| 16:47 |
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clevasseur |
I'll give the ML version a shot, yes. |
| 16:47 |
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sfisque |
ok. maybe give that a shot first. if it solves the problem then we know it's definitely locale based :-) |
| 16:47 |
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clevasseur |
@sfisque Thanks a lot |
| 16:47 |
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sfisque |
npnp :-D |
| 16:48 |
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clevasseur |
hum @sfisque, except the English, i don't see anything to Download. I'm French, not Brasilian nor Japanese :) |
| 16:50 |
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dross |
stop spamming people with the channel, thanks |
| 16:50 |
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sfisque |
let me take a look. |
| 16:51 |
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neuro_sys |
Quest isn't even here, how the heck is spamming folks |
| 16:52 |
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sfisque |
probably a bot |
| 16:52 |
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sfisque |
when we see him next, i'll alert him to be a little less "aggressive" :-D |
| 16:52 |
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neuro_sys |
that's not cool |
| 16:53 |
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sfisque |
how often is it? |
| 16:53 |
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sfisque |
and is it targetted or channel wide? |
| 16:53 |
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neuro_sys |
I've no idea, but by the sound of it, it's running brute force on everyone. :P |
| 16:54 |
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sfisque |
to help me out in this situation can you maybe get me an indication of "how bad it is" so we can temper it |
| 16:54 |
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JavaGeek |
Hello. I got an unsolicited private message from Quest asking me to join this channel |
| 16:55 |
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neuro_sys |
JavaGeek: was it multiple times? |
| 16:55 |
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JavaGeek |
it is considered bad nettiquete to promote other channels |
| 16:55 |
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neuro_sys |
Could you paste it here? |
| 16:55 |
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sfisque |
yes, we're aware. he must have a script "advertising" it. when he appears next, we'll address it with him |
| 16:55 |
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clevasseur |
@sfisque, i had to go. Thanks Anyway... ! |
| 16:55 |
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JavaGeek |
"Join ##JavaEE and meet polite and reasonable people" |
| 16:56 |
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sfisque |
how often and is it via personal /msg? |
| 16:56 |
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JavaGeek |
just once so far |
| 16:56 |
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sfisque |
ok. so it's not "terrible" but a little rude |
| 16:56 |
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JavaGeek |
however, I don't like the tone of it |
| 16:56 |
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neuro_sys |
anyways, do you have a java ee related question? If not, please leave. |
| 16:57 |
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sfisque |
i hope that was sarcasm neuro |
| 16:57 |
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dreamreal |
neuro_sys: really? |
| 16:57 |
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neuro_sys |
yes it was, haha |
| 16:57 |
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sfisque |
kk |
| 16:57 |
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dreamreal |
heh |
| 16:57 |
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JavaGeek |
actually I don't, and I fully intent to leave |
| 16:57 |
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JavaGeek |
so much for polite |
| 16:57 |
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sfisque |
i think for the next few days we need to keep sarcasm down since people are getting their feathers in a ruffle |
| 16:58 |
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sfisque |
i smell a turf war brewing |
| 16:58 |
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dreamreal |
based on what? |
| 17:01 |
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Quest joined ##javaee |
| 17:01 |
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Quest |
stopped invitations. |
| 17:01 |
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sfisque |
ok good |
| 17:01 |
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sfisque |
i think invites should be via "human" for the time being and not automated |
| 17:02 |
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Quest |
people just need a chance to sue these days. dont they :) |
| 17:02 |
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Quest |
sfisque, I cant resist. iam a developer :) |
| 17:02 |
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Quest |
remember |
| 17:02 |
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sfisque |
aye. the tinker fetish. i am guilty at times myself |
| 17:02 |
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Quest |
but either way. its stopped. I dont want any nuisence |
| 17:03 |
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Quest |
sfisque, I have studied the frameworks. |
| 17:03 |
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Quest |
you were correct. |
| 17:03 |
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Quest |
I wonder why people dont know the power of simple JEE. and run for frameworks. |
| 17:03 |
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sfisque |
i hope so, otherwise it's time for me to retire and go work in a coffee shop |
| 17:03 |
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sfisque |
:P |
| 17:03 |
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dreamreal |
Quest: base java EE typically is overpowered or underpowered for what people need |
| 17:04 |
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Quest |
they are afraid. and dont know the latest EE relaese power |
| 17:04 |
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dreamreal |
JSF is certainly capable, for example, but very heavyweight for typical open web apps |
| 17:04 |
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Quest |
dreamreal, oh you are following me ? :) |
| 17:04 |
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dreamreal |
god on |
| 17:04 |
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Quest |
on? |
| 17:04 |
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dreamreal |
god no, you'd be a foolish leader |
| 17:04 |
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Quest |
iam no leader. but I am foolish. |
| 17:04 |
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* dreamreal |
nods |
| 17:04 |
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sfisque |
JSF has a very specific solution set. unfortunately many people square peg / round hole it when they should be using something "view based" like struts/tiles or spring mvc |
| 17:05 |
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Quest |
dreamreal, jsf is component based. would be slower than any request response based framework/ tech. what do you think sfisque |
| 17:07 |
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sfisque |
depends on the problem. if you need to updated "regions" of a page "real time" , jsf is your ticket. if you need to render whole pages and just report information, a view based framework is better |
| 17:07 |
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Quest |
hm |
| 17:08 |
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sfisque |
i'm a big fan of struts/tiles but it's clunky when doing ajax. jsf is better for ajax, but it's very clumsy when you're doing view based navigation |
| 17:08 |
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Quest |
hm |
| 17:09 |
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Quest |
sfisque, spring is better with ajax than struts |
| 17:09 |
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sfisque |
i'm not surprised. struts is rough with ajax. but then i'm not a big fan of ajax. i think it's a good facility but it's abused and overused in many ways |
| 17:10 |
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dreamreal |
which version of struts? :) |
| 17:10 |
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sfisque |
2.x |
| 17:10 |
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Quest |
hm |
| 17:11 |
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javanewb |
does anyone build websites without javascript/ajax anymore? |
| 17:11 |
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sfisque |
when i moved one of my projects from struts/tiles 1.x to JSF, it was pretty easy and clean. i then as an experiment moved it from jsf to struts/tiles 2.x and it was "messy" |
| 17:12 |
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Quest |
javanewb, i think every web should use ajax. rather loading all the page every time |
| 17:12 |
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sfisque |
yes javanewb. and unfortunately, more people should. ajax/js have a lot of good facilities but many websites suffer from what i call "gee whiz" |
| 17:12 |
|
* Quest |
brb |
| 17:13 |
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sfisque |
as a fellow mathematician used to quip, "just because you can... does not mean you should" |
| 17:14 |
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sfisque |
i once worked on a project where the pages were about 10-15 tags and completely JS constructed. talk about a performance and maintainance nightmare |
| 17:15 |
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assgoblin |
Quest, please stop spamming this channel, such action isn't appreciated. Thanks |
| 17:15 |
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javanewb |
what an ass |
| 17:15 |
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sfisque |
lolz... assgoblin, to be exact :P |
| 17:18 |
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sfisque |
generic EE question to create some thought... what's your favorite design pattern to use in an EE project |
| 17:18 |
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Quest |
factory |
| 17:18 |
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sfisque |
and why is that. (i should have added that to the initial query) |
| 17:18 |
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Quest |
sometimes singledon is needed . such as hibernate |
| 17:19 |
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Quest |
in * hibernate |
| 17:19 |
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Quest |
sfisque, it gives the object to me |
| 17:19 |
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Quest |
and i dont ahve to worry much about intanciations. good for mock |
| 17:19 |
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Quest |
well , iam just studing on it |
| 17:19 |
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sfisque |
so you like the convenience of object construction that factory provides. |
| 17:20 |
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Quest |
learning it |
| 17:20 |
|
Quest |
a bit |
| 17:20 |
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neuro_sys |
Strategy, for it helps decoupling. |
| 17:20 |
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Quest |
obvious |
| 17:20 |
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neuro_sys |
And have dubious opinion about dependency injection, if you'd call that a design pattern. |
| 17:20 |
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sfisque |
aye, strategy has a good fit for "plugin" design |
| 17:21 |
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sfisque |
that's kind of why i like proxy/facade |
| 17:21 |
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neuro_sys |
eh, actually I'm working on a plugin design lately, not with Java though. |
| 17:21 |
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dreamreal |
for what, then? |
| 17:22 |
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javanewb |
python!? |
| 17:22 |
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neuro_sys |
for educational purposes and fun, but it's for an IRC bot, that I want it to provide functionality through plugins with language bindings. |
| 17:22 |
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neuro_sys |
C |
| 17:23 |
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neuro_sys |
hah, one of the plugins is responsible for loading python plugins. |
| 17:23 |
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dreamreal |
why not C plugins? |
| 17:23 |
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sfisque |
so the bot is in C and bootstraps a python interpreter for plugins? |
| 17:23 |
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neuro_sys |
that was the first thing of course |
| 17:23 |
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neuro_sys |
python plugin manager is a c plugin in that case |
| 17:23 |
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neuro_sys |
yeah |
| 17:24 |
|
neuro_sys |
The bot is in C, which can load native shared libraries as plugins on runtime. |
| 17:26 |
|
neuro_sys |
in case anyone wants to contribute or check out! https://github.com/neuro-sys/neuro-bot |
| 17:27 |
|
neuro_sys |
:P |
| 17:28 |
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neuro_sys |
should update README, irrelevant by now. |
| 17:28 |
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sfisque |
recruite a tech writer :-) |
| 17:29 |
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neuro_sys |
hah, should learn to do that myself |
| 17:29 |
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javanewb |
dreamreal is a writer aren't you? |
| 17:30 |
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sfisque |
never enough hours in a day. that's why teams are born ! |
| 17:30 |
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neuro_sys |
indeed |
| 17:30 |
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dreamreal |
yeah |
| 17:31 |
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sfisque |
if only i could find people who loves natural language and sdk design |
| 17:33 |
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neuro_sys |
did you have something in mind? |
| 17:34 |
|
sfisque |
i've been working on something "very part time" to marry a UI to the openxion project (it's a hypertalk interpreter in java) but it's scripting only (has no UI front end like HyperCard had). basically rebirth Hypercard in java |
| 17:35 |
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sfisque |
that way it's any platform rather than "mac only" |
| 17:37 |
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| 17:37 |
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xll11 |
qsweet |
| 17:37 |
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javanewb |
qsweet? |
| 17:38 |
|
xll11 |
anyone has expierence with iText? |
| 17:38 |
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sfisque |
some. but it's been some years |
| 17:40 |
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neuro_sys |
I had a use for it recently |
| 17:42 |
|
neuro_sys |
so yes, shoot your questionb |
| 17:42 |
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neuro_sys |
-b |
| 17:51 |
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robbyoconnor |
Quest: spammingyout channel |
| 17:53 |
|
xll11 |
its about using a foriegn language with it |
| 17:53 |
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robbyoconnor |
is likely to get you flamed. |
| 17:53 |
|
robbyoconnor |
STOP SPAMMING |
| 17:53 |
|
robbyoconnor |
Quest: ^^ |
| 17:53 |
|
robbyoconnor |
fucktards |
| 17:53 |
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| 17:53 |
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javanewb |
buzzwords |
| 17:56 |
|
sfisque |
so xll11 you're trying to output PDF in a foreign language? |
| 17:58 |
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xll11 |
yeah, Hebrew to be more precise |
| 17:58 |
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sfisque |
ah. no experience in R->L lanaguage :-( |
| 17:58 |
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xll11 |
bummer |
| 17:59 |
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sfisque |
i'm surprised there isn't an itext channel. it's pretty widely used |
| 18:00 |
|
xll11 |
I had no idea abotu it till today, when I concieved the idea of making a automated form maker for my dad's business |
| 18:00 |
|
xll11 |
I planned on having a standard body I'll set, and some fields defined by user input |
| 18:00 |
|
xll11 |
like Title: <user input> |
| 18:00 |
|
xll11 |
etc |
| 18:05 |
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sfisque |
what's the actual failure? maybe it's not directly related to R->L but something more systemic. itext has been known to have bugs :-) |
| 18:11 |
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mdleblanc |
Hello |
| 18:14 |
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Quest |
hey mdleblanc |
| 18:17 |
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sfisque |
time to bounce. code strong peeps |
| 19:11 |
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Quest |
In hibernate, once I have made the SessionFactory, how to call it again and again for transactions (as SessionFactory is made only once per application). how to again and again get its same instance? |
| 20:29 |
|
Quest |
just static SessionFactory would suffice? |
| 20:45 |
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pdurbin |
Quest: were you really sending private messages to people in ##java to join this channel? :( |
| 20:48 |
|
Quest |
pdurbin, yes. but i stopped when some complained |
| 20:48 |
|
pdurbin |
Quest: good. thanks |
| 20:48 |
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pdurbin |
I've never used hibernate. sorry |
| 20:49 |
|
Quest |
no problem |
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|
* pdurbin |
scrolls |
| 22:07 |
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sfisque |
*parchments* |
| 22:07 |
|
pdurbin |
man, busy day today. will have to catch up later |
| 22:07 |
|
pdurbin |
heh |
| 22:07 |
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sfisque |
it got lively a bit here. had some tiny flames, but not bad for a "first day out" |
| 22:35 |
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pdurbin |
I thought I saw someone got kicked :( |
| 22:44 |
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pdurbin |
sfisque: I like your big picture questions. asking folks about design patters |
| 22:45 |
|
pdurbin |
neuro_sys: your bot that you linked too is interesting |
| 22:45 |
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pdurbin |
to* |
| 22:47 |
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| 23:00 |
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sfisque |
aye |
| 23:01 |
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sfisque |
any good "tutorials" on using a irc bot? i'd like to take my irc experience to "the next level" :P |
| 23:23 |
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xll11 |
sfisque what you mean? IRC Scripting? |
| 23:24 |
|
sfisque |
i've seen people make references to "bots" in channel |
| 23:30 |
|
xll11 |
well |
| 23:30 |
|
xll11 |
its just a something with programmed responses |
| 23:30 |
|
xll11 |
say, if yuou say |
| 23:31 |
|
xll11 |
~google 123 |
| 23:31 |
|
xll11 |
it will return the first result for that query on google |
| 23:31 |
|
xll11 |
(for example) |
| 23:32 |
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sfisque |
right but that would entail - a running process, hooking it to the channel, etc. basically a walk through of setting up an instance and how to do a basic configuration and "hello world" type process |
| 23:34 |
|
Quest |
sfisque, use eggdrops |
| 23:35 |
|
Quest |
sfisque, www.eggheads.org |
| 23:35 |
|
sfisque |
aye, google got me there already |
| 23:35 |
|
sfisque |
hrm.. tcl... blech. C i can live with and it supports that too |
| 23:36 |
|
Quest |
you know tcl? |
| 23:37 |
|
Quest |
if you do. you are already set |
| 23:38 |
|
Quest |
there are plenty of plugins and adons for eggs for different kind off things. you just have to configure them |
| 23:38 |
|
sfisque |
i briefly touched it about 20 years ago. i'm still washing the stink off. :P |
| 23:38 |
|
Quest |
you dont need to know tcl in order to run an eggdrop though |
| 23:39 |
|
Quest |
just install it, configure it. add some adons. |
| 23:40 |
|
sfisque |
i'll take a look at it. what other's are good? any that are configurable via perl? xml? |
| 23:40 |
|
Quest |
sfisque, just follow http://www.egghelp.org/setup.htm . thats all |
| 23:40 |
|
Quest |
sfisque, i only have used eggs |
| 23:41 |
|
Quest |
alot. many years ago |
| 23:41 |
|
Quest |
sfisque, advice. dont use windows with eggs. use linux. it would be much stabler |
| 23:42 |
|
Quest |
sfisque, I need to code my first classes. brb |
| 23:43 |
|
sfisque |
yes. it will probably run on a slackware vm in my private cloud at home |
| 23:44 |
|
sfisque |
and please. the only windows i run is whatever my employer requires. (and i do that begrudgingly) :P |
| 23:45 |
|
Quest |
:) |
| 23:46 |
|
sfisque |
i run 2 4x opteron servers at home with solaris11, and slackware vm's on top of that for things like jboss, mysql, etc. |
| 23:47 |
|
Quest |
sfisque, hm solaris runs fine without the exact hardware it requires. i mean on vm? |
| 23:51 |
|
Quest |
sfisque, which vm do you use for running solaris ona x86? |
| 23:52 |
|
sfisque |
no, solaris == bare metal. slackware == vm inside VirtualBox |
| 23:53 |
|
sfisque |
nothing has the uptime like solaris, and VB is rock solid on solaris, so it's the best "base bed" for running vm's |
| 23:54 |
|
sfisque |
and i love slackware.. always have, always will |
