IRC log for #javaee, 2013-07-17

Please see http://irclog.greptilian.com/javaee for which days have been logged.

All times shown according to UTC.

Time	Nick	Message
23:12		philbot joined ##javaee
23:12	Quest	When the application under question is small, we can always meet the needs by injecting dependencies manually, without using any framework like Spring. says http://www.javacodegeeks.com/2010/12/dependency-injection-manual-way.html
23:13	pdurbin	hello world! logging at http://irclog.greptilian.com/javaee/today thanks to philbot :)
23:14		philbot joined ##javaee
23:15	Quest	be right back.
23:15	sfisque	basically what they're doing is manually "injecting" the references either via mutator (setXXX) or via the constructor ( new A( x, y, z );
23:16	pdurbin	I only recently starting trying to figure out @Inject and the like: switch to own servlets to inject EJBs · 4658558 · IQSS/dvn - https://github.com/IQSS/dvn/commit/46585583da4866589d98b1fe8e1d307a7181176c
23:17	sfisque	which is kind of the point of pojo's. you loosely couple the references (they're set via either DI, mutator, or construction) and the object does not care where they come from
23:23	pdurbin	sfisque: you're doing more than just lurking. which is great :)
23:24	sfisque	Q and i have history. we spent about an hour last night banteringa bout this
23:25	pdurbin	sfisque: yes I read through http://echelog.com/logs/browse/netbeans/1374012000 last night. so chatty! ;)
23:25	sfisque	lolz
23:26	Quest	sfisque, ok. and i think interface injection is very possible without a framework. like http://pastebin.com/Nyy6As14 ???????????
23:26	Quest	be right back.
23:29	pdurbin	oh, here's where I let the founder of this channel (neuro_sys) know that I started logging it: http://www.evanchooly.com/logs/%23%23jsf/2013-07-17
23:29	sfisque	negative. someone has to do the injection. you're either doing it explicitly via mutator/constructor or some framework is intercepting calls via reflection proxies and performing interposing
23:30	sfisque	if you're doing it explicitly, it's not "really DI"... you're just doing explicitly what a framework would perform for you "auto-magically"
23:30	* pdurbin	invites people in ##java to join this channel: http://www.evanchooly.com/logs/%23%23java/2013-07-17
23:34		Topic for ##javaee is now Java Enterprise Edition (Java EE) discussion \| logs at http://irclog.greptilian.com/javaee/today
23:36		whartung joined ##javaee
23:37	whartung	so is this new, or simply unloved and abandoned
23:39	Quest	sfisque, so its not real DI? a real di would be like MyInterface mi = context.get. blabla(className) ?
23:39	sfisque	so new, it's still got the smell :P
23:39	Quest	sfisque, without the "new" keyword i mean
23:40	Quest	am I correct?
23:40	sfisque	Q: no, it would be like class A { X x; }. A a = new A(); and x is populated for you by the framework (you don't have to instantiate it)
23:41	pdurbin	whartung: not sure! :)
23:41	Quest	hm
23:41	Quest	oh we have a new joiner. whartung
23:41	sfisque	in a really decoupled setup, you'd ask for an A from some pool via JNDI or such (like we did in EE in the "old days")
23:41	Quest	sfisque, so its not real DI? a real di would be like MyInterface mi = context.get. blabla(className) ?
23:41	Quest	sfisque, oh
23:42	sfisque	basically, DI manageds instances in a pool and "injects" one when needed.
23:43	Quest	as for A via JNDI ? so thats what frameworks do? how do they or spring give you a new object from the context without a "new key word" . they do instanciate it. right?
23:43	sfisque	at least, that's the general implementation in EE. as for spring and other non EE containers, they will do it however they see fit
23:43	Quest	sfisque, i see. how does it injects??
23:43	sfisque	java.lang.reflect.Proxy
23:44	Quest	sfisque, by a proxy class?
23:44	sfisque	yes
23:44	Quest	hm i have the idea of that a bit.
23:44	whartung	you don't need a proxy to inject, it injects via reflection
23:44	whartung	you need a proxy to wrap methods with behavior, not DI
23:44	Quest	just like hibernate proxy or any other proxy class? calling some super methods and doing some its own things?
23:45	sfisque	yes. the container gives you a proxy, but you don't "know" it. As far as you're concerned, it's the "real thing"
23:45	Quest	whartung, i have to make you op for that
23:45	whartung	op?
23:45	whartung	o
23:45	Quest	yes. this.op
23:46	whartung	with great power cones great ignorance...
23:46	whartung	*comes
23:46	Quest	sfisque, is there any way I can see that happening. without any framework?
23:46	* whartung	is lucky he can spell IRC
23:46	sfisque	whartung, the proxy is in order to intercept method calls so you know "when" to perfrom the injection
23:46	Quest	whartung, thats the ##java logo
23:46	sfisque	lolz
23:47	sfisque	Q: a debugger
23:47	Quest	Q?
23:47	whartung	give me an example sfisque
23:47	sfisque	i live inside the netbeans debugger. you discover some funky stuff about EE that way
23:48	sfisque	put a class break point in a session bean. look at the call stack when a reference gets materialized
23:49	sfisque	you see some pretty funky stuff :P
23:50	Quest	sfisque, is there any way I can see that happening. without any framework?
23:52	sfisque	like i said, unless you're just doing the injection explicitly via mutator/constructor, you have to have a framework doing it. unless they are sneaking DI into 8se.. which i'm not aware of
23:55	Quest	DI into 8se ?
23:55	Quest	oh. they are not. i gues
23:56	Quest	well actually I want to do what frameworks do.... frameworks are nothing but java classes and configs. now I only want to DI like a framework for only one or two classes
23:57	Quest	iam a very different guy. I cannot proceed unless I absorb and agree to something with understanding. this is a reason i am banned in ##java for asking too many questions which most dont care

Please see http://irclog.greptilian.com/javaee for which days have been logged.