| Time |
S |
Nick |
Message |
| 01:04 |
|
pdurbin |
aditsu: I assume you mean https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rich_Internet_application |
| 01:04 |
|
pdurbin |
pulsar: glad to hear angular and SPA in general worked out for you |
| 01:05 |
|
pdurbin |
and yeah, building GUIs in HTML is still suboptimal |
| 01:09 |
|
pdurbin |
pulsar: what about desktop apps that are JVM based? I recently was playing with https://github.com/metabase/metabase , the Mac desktop app, and it seemed nice, seemed fine. It's written in Clojure. |
| 01:10 |
|
pulsar |
i was talking about desktop apps. i still have hopes for java for "webapps" |
| 01:12 |
|
pdurbin |
yeah, the Clojure/JVM app I mentioned (Metabase) is a desktop app |
| 01:13 |
|
pulsar |
i guess.... it depends. as long it is not obvious it is java and perhaps the application comes with an embedded jre |
| 01:13 |
|
pdurbin |
can be a desktop app, I mean. you can also just run it on a server as a web app. pretty neat |
| 01:13 |
|
pdurbin |
yes, the embed the jre I think |
| 01:13 |
|
pulsar |
not see that happen a lot lately |
| 01:13 |
|
pdurbin |
thye* |
| 01:15 |
|
pdurbin |
pulsar: so when you say you still have hope for java webapps you mean that the frontend is an SPA? (javascript, basically) |
| 01:15 |
|
pulsar |
also cant tell much about other jvm based languages. my guts tell me scala is dead in the water and clojure is... ummm ... special ;) |
| 01:15 |
|
pulsar |
yes, and RESTful apis implemented with java / jvm |
| 01:16 |
|
pulsar |
since at least this part should be stable ;) |
| 01:16 |
|
pdurbin |
heh |
| 01:19 |
|
pulsar |
i think java has a stigmata when it comes to GUIs in general and is broadly associated with UX back from the 90s where things like metal and motif were "state of the art" |
| 01:20 |
|
pulsar |
problem is, many ppl coding uis in java make them look like that |
| 01:20 |
|
pulsar |
also, implementing "slick" UIs in java is not easy. i have had some hopes for FX but it does not seem to gain much momentum, right? |
| 01:22 |
|
pulsar |
and yes, i have been into swing for a couple of years. it has been a while though |
| 01:22 |
|
pulsar |
enjoyed it actually. |
| 01:23 |
|
pulsar |
a couple of months ago i was evaluating crossplatform app options with not trivial requirements for the UI and tried to keep java out of the equation. |
| 01:25 |
|
pulsar |
came up with QT/c++ or chrome/node/electron/nw apps in my closer consideration |
| 01:25 |
|
pulsar |
there might a lot of other stacks, not based on js or c++, like python + gtk or something. did not really dig much deeper into it. |
| 01:26 |
|
uf |
Ew, Electron/NWjs apps. |
| 01:28 |
|
pulsar |
if you target chrome apps and desktop apps as an alternative it is a match. |
| 01:30 |
|
pulsar |
uf: what makes you go "ew", js or node+webkit as an app? just curious if you had any hands on experience |
| 01:35 |
|
uf |
pulsar: I'm actually creating an IRC client in Electron (or was, I had to drop it for some more important work). The biggest problem with Electron/NWjs is that they bundle a whole browser for each app. In addition to being a memory and power hog, the app itself weights a lot (20 MB is the minimum I believe). There are really only two reasons why using Electron/NWjs makes sense: 1) You have a huge webapp and you want to implement a desk |
| 01:35 |
|
uf |
top app for it, but don't want to waste time re-writing everything natively; 2) You love JS so much that you refuse to write native code, no matter what the cost to your audience is. |
| 01:36 |
|
pulsar |
ic. nothing unexpected then ;) |
| 01:37 |
|
sfisque |
what i have found is that the issue with desktop java apps isnt necessarily the LnF chosen, but the ability of the devs to properly multi-thread the app. java's graphical pipeline is tricky to multi-thread and if you dont do it appropriately, the app will stall in very undesirable ways and even get deadlocked. unfortunately there are not enough tutorials on how to properly multi-thread awt/swing/jfx apps |
| 01:38 |
|
uf |
pulsar: Yeah, haha. Also, it's slowwww. |
| 01:38 |
|
uf |
See Atom |
| 01:38 |
|
sfisque |
i had an app many (MANY) years ago that had a very interesting race condition. if you ask most OS"s for a window, you can assume you can start manipulating that window when the |
| 01:38 |
|
pulsar |
i use atom a lot. its fast enough for most stuff. |
| 01:39 |
|
pulsar |
sfisque: i have been using foxtrot back then with swing. made that a lot easier. |
| 01:39 |
|
sfisque |
"new" returns, but on AIX, the window manager was multi-threaded and "new Window()" would return instantly but you dont have a real window yet, so you get all sorts of NPE's if you dont do a wait/nofity block |
| 01:39 |
|
sfisque |
too a few days to track that down |
| 01:39 |
|
sfisque |
this was back in 1.1 days |
| 01:54 |
|
pdurbin |
pulsar: so did you end up with Qt/C++? |
| 01:58 |
|
sfisque |
what is an NWjs app? |
| 02:01 |
|
uf |
sfisque: http://nwjs.io/ |
| 04:24 |
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| 07:35 |
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| 07:57 |
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| 09:12 |
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| 09:24 |
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| 10:09 |
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| 12:20 |
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| 12:22 |
|
pulsar |
pdurbin: no, postponed it for a while. none of the solutions made me really happy. |
| 13:57 |
|
pdurbin |
pulsar: gotcha. you'll have to let us know if you find one you like |
| 15:19 |
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| 15:45 |
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