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Auad |
Hello there |
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shelajev |
hello people! |
| 15:48 |
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shelajev |
so glad to see you all here |
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mynickname |
is the streaming started? |
| 15:49 |
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shelajev |
nope, I expect it to start in 10ish minutes |
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shelajev |
virtualjug.com/#live |
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d joined #virtualJUG |
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sjmaple |
hello hello :) |
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sjmaple |
we'll be getting underway in just under 5 mins |
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tushar |
Hi all |
| 15:58 |
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sjmaple |
hey tushar |
| 15:58 |
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sjmaple |
wlcome :) |
| 15:58 |
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tushar |
:) |
| 15:58 |
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tushar |
how are you? |
| 15:59 |
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DougLy |
howdy, |
| 16:01 |
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yshthdn |
Greetings |
| 16:02 |
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Madfish |
hi There |
| 16:02 |
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sjmaple |
all ready to get started! |
| 16:02 |
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sjmaple |
let me click go :) |
| 16:02 |
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yshthdn |
oh yes |
| 16:02 |
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sjmaple |
can everyone see us? |
| 16:03 |
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yshthdn |
yes |
| 16:03 |
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MarsYang |
yes |
| 16:03 |
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monksy |
yep |
| 16:03 |
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DougLy |
clear 4 me |
| 16:04 |
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| 16:04 |
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monksy |
btw thank you for using IRC for the chat functionality... that way I can use xchat to connect to the channel |
| 16:04 |
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sjmaple |
great! :) |
| 16:04 |
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sjmaple |
yw, monksy :) |
| 16:04 |
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| 16:07 |
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monksy |
virtualJUG is case sensitive |
| 16:07 |
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monksy |
for the channel name |
| 16:08 |
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| 16:08 |
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monksy |
do you support 4k resolution yet? |
| 16:09 |
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| 16:09 |
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| 16:09 |
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DougLy |
tell Oleg is doing great. He seems nervous :-) |
| 16:09 |
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millrossjez |
we can see :) |
| 16:09 |
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| 16:10 |
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sjmaple |
he's not nervous, that's his typical Estonian swagger :) |
| 16:10 |
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Dentharg |
Yes, we do. |
| 16:10 |
|
Dentharg |
Yes, we do see screen. |
| 16:10 |
|
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| 16:10 |
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sjmaple |
monksy: good point, monksy - I'll make a point of mentioning that next time |
| 16:10 |
|
sjmaple |
and no, no 4k res yet :) |
| 16:11 |
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| 16:13 |
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| 16:13 |
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DougLy |
does anybody know how long this would go? Ihave a meeting around 10AM here in Seattle |
| 16:13 |
|
DijitalMunky |
Usually they are around an hour |
| 16:14 |
|
DijitalMunky |
(sometimes longer, but they are available after they are down as well) |
| 16:14 |
|
DijitalMunky |
*done |
| 16:15 |
|
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| 16:15 |
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sjmaple |
yep, what DijitalMunky said :) |
| 16:16 |
|
DijitalMunky |
;) |
| 16:18 |
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| 16:18 |
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monksy |
unrelated note: AWS is having issues with N Virgina with dynomodb |
| 16:18 |
|
INeedMySpace |
FF |
| 16:19 |
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| 16:19 |
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| 16:19 |
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| 16:20 |
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DougLy |
aws issue again? or is it old news from the weekend? |
| 16:22 |
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| 16:22 |
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| 16:22 |
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| 16:23 |
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daincredibleholg |
Well, make it two :) |
| 16:23 |
|
firefoxNX |
3 |
| 16:23 |
|
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| 16:23 |
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millrossjez |
7 |
| 16:23 |
|
millrossjez |
(sorry, I'm not very good with shared state) |
| 16:23 |
|
sjmaple |
lol |
| 16:23 |
|
daincredibleholg |
LOL -nice one |
| 16:24 |
|
edmac |
firefoxNX, do you work with Niagara AX? |
| 16:25 |
|
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| 16:32 |
|
edmac |
is anybody here? |
| 16:32 |
|
tushar |
yes |
| 16:33 |
|
DijitalMunky |
I am here in electron form only.... |
| 16:33 |
|
DijitalMunky |
In fact most of my electrons have been lovingly recycled |
| 16:34 |
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| 16:34 |
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sjmaple |
any questions so far from anyone? |
| 16:34 |
|
sjmaple |
pls put them in here |
| 16:34 |
|
sjmaple |
as well as comments or anything else (relevant ;) ) |
| 16:35 |
|
edmac |
so far, I'm finding the topic to be over my head... |
| 16:35 |
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| 16:35 |
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DougLy |
he forgot to shutdown the thread pool |
| 16:35 |
|
DougLy |
hehe |
| 16:35 |
|
sjmaple |
:D |
| 16:36 |
|
sjmaple |
edmac: it is recorded, so it's good to watch ones like this a couple of times |
| 16:37 |
|
El |
Sorry I have to go, could you send the link to see this session later, please |
| 16:37 |
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| 16:40 |
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| 16:41 |
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| 16:41 |
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firefoxNX |
slight off topic - do Reactive Java libraries use executors or fork-join? |
| 16:42 |
|
tushar |
he is explaining using java-8 |
| 16:42 |
|
tushar |
so i dont have exposure to java-8 |
| 16:42 |
|
tushar |
:( |
| 16:42 |
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| 16:43 |
|
DougLy |
I am in java 9 already :-) |
| 16:43 |
|
DijitalMunky |
:P |
| 16:43 |
|
Dentharg |
Btw. casting vjug session to a TV is great for code readability on the slides ;) |
| 16:44 |
|
sjmaple |
firefoxNX: good question... I'll ask |
| 16:44 |
|
sjmaple |
I saw Byte Buddy supports Java 9 already :) |
| 16:44 |
|
firefoxNX |
i just searched rxjava repo on github... uses executor |
| 16:44 |
|
sjmaple |
we should ask anyway, to put Oleg on the spot ;) |
| 16:45 |
|
Dentharg |
Java 9? Damn, I'm sitting on 6 as the project mgmt does not want to upg. |
| 16:45 |
|
Brettster |
eol? |
| 16:45 |
|
millrossjez |
surely 6 is EOL |
| 16:45 |
|
DijitalMunky |
@dentharg welcome to the club....we have a ton of that as well, because the business people are afraid that something is going to break... |
| 16:45 |
|
daquino85 |
on 6 as well but we're preparing for a big upgrade to 8 |
| 16:46 |
|
marowid |
if project management chooses your technology it's time to change your job |
| 16:46 |
|
DijitalMunky |
6 has been eol for a few years now |
| 16:46 |
|
Zelexis |
yep |
| 16:46 |
|
ettoremaiorana |
eheheheh |
| 16:46 |
|
millrossjez |
yep you're still online Oleg |
| 16:46 |
|
Zelexis |
enjoying all the info |
| 16:46 |
|
tushar |
You are right.. I have an interview next week |
| 16:46 |
|
sjmaple |
7 is eol too |
| 16:46 |
|
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Anand joined #virtualJUG |
| 16:46 |
|
sjmaple |
but it all depends on stack products |
| 16:47 |
|
Dentharg |
Even google uses 6 for Android.. Not everything from 7 is supported afaik |
| 16:47 |
|
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lutzh joined #virtualJUG |
| 16:47 |
|
daquino85 |
even the new ART runtime doesn't fully support 7? |
| 16:48 |
|
daquino85 |
i know dalvik is still 6 |
| 16:48 |
|
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| 16:48 |
|
Dentharg |
Try with resources is not supported on Android 5 if I'm not mistaken |
| 16:49 |
|
Dentharg |
No lambdas |
| 16:49 |
|
DijitalMunky |
:( |
| 16:49 |
|
sjmaple |
if you're using a product, like WebSphere, which runs on the IBM JDK, the support for WebSphere extends the JDK support to the term of the WAS support, if longer |
| 16:50 |
|
sjmaple |
If you then get a stack product on top of WAS. Portal or commerce, it will again extend the support of the JDK to the term of portal/commerce |
| 16:50 |
|
sjmaple |
what's not supported any longer in Java 7 is purely the public updates, i.e. just JDK updates without products |
| 16:51 |
|
sjmaple |
I'm pretty sure the same model is used by Oracle |
| 16:52 |
|
DijitalMunky |
ROFL |
| 16:53 |
|
DijitalMunky |
(at Les Iterables) |
| 16:53 |
|
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| 16:54 |
|
sjmaple |
such a great image |
| 16:54 |
|
DijitalMunky |
Aye!' |
| 16:56 |
|
Dentharg |
AYE = alternative yes equivalent? ;) |
| 16:56 |
|
DijitalMunky |
Nice! |
| 16:56 |
|
daquino85 |
well played |
| 16:56 |
|
DijitalMunky |
and yes |
| 16:58 |
|
firefoxNX |
link pls? :) |
| 16:58 |
|
ettoremaiorana |
what's the risk for an actor system to deadlock? |
| 16:58 |
|
sjmaple |
the vJUG session Oleg refers to is http://virtualjug.com/resilience-is-by-design/ |
| 16:58 |
|
sjmaple |
:) |
| 16:58 |
|
daquino85 |
is there a github repo with the code examples somewhere that we can try executing using each of the different models? |
| 16:58 |
|
ettoremaiorana |
I mean, how easy is it to screw up using a bad actor graph? |
| 16:58 |
|
sjmaple |
good questions, I'll ask after fibers |
| 16:59 |
|
sjmaple |
actually, I think that's the last model he's looking at |
| 16:59 |
|
savor_flavor |
So actors allow you to scale over multiple JVMs. He does not mention this? |
| 16:59 |
|
firefoxNX |
actors work across JVMs? |
| 17:00 |
|
firefoxNX |
fibers sounds like magic |
| 17:00 |
|
DijitalMunky |
Sounds like string theory to me! |
| 17:00 |
|
DijitalMunky |
LOL |
| 17:01 |
|
lutzh |
@firefoxNX passing messages works across JVMs, so it doesn't matter if the actor you talk to is on the same JVM or elsewhere. |
| 17:01 |
|
savor_flavor |
Didnt understand fibers. The presentation should be condensed at the beginning to leave time for the interesting stuff at the end. |
| 17:01 |
|
marius_filip |
Question for Oleg: how scalable are fibers given that there is no efficient way to swap thread stacks? |
| 17:02 |
|
DijitalMunky |
@lutz, as long as the messages are Serializable though, right? |
| 17:02 |
|
kedi |
are fibers akin to generator functions /aysnc-await kind of thing? |
| 17:02 |
|
marius_filip |
No efficient way to swap thread stacks in the JVM. The only method to do it I've seen is based on copying the stack in place, but that doesn't scale for very deep stacks (thousands of frames, recoursive functions) |
| 17:02 |
|
lutzh |
@etorremaiorana what do you mean with screw up actor graph? The actor graph would be the actor hierarchy and would express the supervision, but not the message flow. |
| 17:03 |
|
firefoxNX |
@lutzh so do actors use something similar to JMS to achieve this? |
| 17:03 |
|
lutzh |
You don't get "traditional" deadlocks because there's no shared state. A deadlock would be actors that each wait for a message from another. |
| 17:03 |
|
ettoremaiorana |
i don't think there's always a hierarchy father->child, you can easily build any kind of graph if you want. |
| 17:03 |
|
ettoremaiorana |
... I guess... |
| 17:04 |
|
lutzh |
@firefoxNX no, it's much more lightweight, it just uses queues and if remote it will serialize your messages (and then de-serialize and queue on the other end). |
| 17:04 |
|
Dentharg |
Is there any fibers session? |
| 17:05 |
|
firefoxNX |
awesome thanks @lutzh |
| 17:05 |
|
lutzh |
@ettoremaiorana Well actually there is, every actor has a parent... so I thought that's what you meant.. |
| 17:05 |
|
DijitalMunky |
Yes, thanks @lutzh |
| 17:05 |
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| 17:05 |
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millrossjez |
a session on fibers (eg quasar) would be awesome |
| 17:05 |
|
lutzh |
But you mean just visualizing the message flow as a graph? |
| 17:05 |
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marius_filip |
@simon: did you get my question, Simon? Or I am speaking to the wrong channel? |
| 17:05 |
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| 17:05 |
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sjmaple |
yep, just waiting for Oleg to finish |
| 17:05 |
|
DougLy |
thanks for the meetup and presentation! |
| 17:06 |
|
sjmaple |
then I'll attack him with questions :) |
| 17:06 |
|
DougLy |
very goo |
| 17:06 |
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marius_filip |
@simon: ok. thx |
| 17:06 |
|
DougLy |
good |
| 17:06 |
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| 17:07 |
|
ettoremaiorana |
@lutzh Ok, I'm not massively familiar with akka itself, I thought akka behaved like any other message passing systems: two actors producing onto each other can fill the queue up and result in deadlock |
| 17:07 |
|
ettoremaiorana |
Apologies if I'm talking nonsense |
| 17:08 |
|
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| 17:08 |
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millrossjez |
generally actors don't end up waiting for a message from another specific actor (unless you make their state machine depend on it) |
| 17:08 |
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| 17:09 |
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savor_flavor |
Thanks for the book references. Look great. (when will I ever find time ti read all these great things!) |
| 17:09 |
|
geoL |
Thanks |
| 17:09 |
|
millrossjez |
but even so it shouldn't result in 2 blocked threads, more that if somehow each is expecting a message from the other, that particular piece of work will end up in a dead end effectively |
| 17:10 |
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| 17:10 |
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millrossjez |
(think i've explained that rather badly, sorry) |
| 17:10 |
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Dionisio |
Any advice in the order to read the books? |
| 17:10 |
|
millrossjez |
great presentation Oleg :) |
| 17:10 |
|
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| 17:10 |
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| 17:10 |
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ettoremaiorana |
Thanks Oleg |
| 17:11 |
|
ettoremaiorana |
ettore maiorana |
| 17:11 |
|
MarsYang |
great session , thanks. |
| 17:13 |
|
miluch |
"can actor be statefull ?" |
| 17:13 |
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| 17:14 |
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| 17:14 |
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savor_flavor |
I'm a she, but of course Simon couldn't guess. |
| 17:14 |
|
pathfinder2104 |
when will be the recording available? I missed the starting and I just joined |
| 17:14 |
|
ettoremaiorana |
thank you guys |
| 17:16 |
|
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Anand left #virtualJUG |
| 17:19 |
|
marius_filip |
@simon: depth of the stack is the issue. Can you please re-ask about deep stacks? |
| 17:19 |
|
marius_filip |
Resulted from recursive functions, for ex. |
| 17:19 |
|
marius_filip |
OK, thx. |
| 17:19 |
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marius_filip |
Many thanks! |
| 17:20 |
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Kiran |
Thanks Oleg |
| 17:20 |
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millrossjez |
thanks Oleg |
| 17:20 |
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Zelexis |
Thanks Oleg ...learned a lot |
| 17:21 |
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alkoepam |
Thanks Oleg, great talk |
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slawek |
thanks Oleg, great session |
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kedi |
sure, no issues, i was more of comparing it with what ES6/ES7 is coming up with |
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marius_filip |
Excellent vJUC, thanks for Oleg, Simon & RebelLabs |
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pathfinder2104 |
Thanks Oleg & Simon |
| 17:22 |
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sjmaple |
thanks everyone! |
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kedi |
Thanks Oleg and simon for the session |
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sjmaple |
pathfinder2104: replay here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UoKebad9UOk |
| 17:23 |
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pathfinder2104 |
Thanks mate :) |
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sjmaple |
thanks for watching! http://meetup.com/virtualjug to sign up or RSVP to future events |
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pathfinder2104 |
Bye |
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shelajev |
@miluch, actors can be stateful |
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shelajev |
and they can have local state they can and should modify and they can choose what messages to handle and in which way based on that local state |
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shelajev |
it's just because they communicate through messages they don |
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shelajev |
*don't use shared mutable state that much |
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shelajev |
and that simplifies things a lot |
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shelajev |
okay, see you all online! Thanks for tuning in! ping me @shelajev if a need arises |
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