| Time |
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| 06:15 |
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Tushar |
Hi All |
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| 16:57 |
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sjmaple |
hey |
| 16:57 |
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sjmaple |
just as a reminder session starts in 1hr |
| 16:57 |
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sjmaple |
it's an hour later than usual this week |
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shelajev |
hello people! |
| 17:08 |
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alxs|away |
hey |
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mikeb |
Hi Guys, sorry I'm early :-) |
| 17:33 |
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sjmaple |
habit? :) |
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sjmaple |
just with heinz and Oleg now, starting v soon :) |
| 18:00 |
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millrossjez |
all set for reflection-related lunacy |
| 18:02 |
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sjmaple |
:D |
| 18:02 |
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shelajev |
and it's live |
| 18:02 |
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| 18:02 |
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shelajev |
can you please refresh vjug page |
| 18:02 |
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shelajev |
if the video didn't start yet |
| 18:03 |
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javajon |
(clap, clap) |
| 18:04 |
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| 18:04 |
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shelajev |
oh, this is going to be embarassing! :) |
| 18:07 |
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| 18:09 |
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michael_b |
what happened the third time? |
| 18:09 |
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tocsa_CCJUG_NJUG |
Continuous Improvement / Integration :) |
| 18:10 |
|
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| 18:10 |
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Dominik |
DominikD |
| 18:10 |
|
Dominik |
oops |
| 18:10 |
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| 18:10 |
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| 18:11 |
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sjmaple |
http://www.javaspecialists.eu/ |
| 18:11 |
|
shelajev |
third time I jumped better, legs first :D |
| 18:11 |
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| 18:13 |
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sjmaple |
which is why he walks like he does |
| 18:16 |
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joshuaw |
"Streaming is going to lead to Screaming" |
| 18:16 |
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| 18:16 |
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shelajev |
that's a nice trick, I always get lost in those parentheses |
| 18:17 |
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shelajev |
by the way, does stream.peek() help debugging or is it more or less useless? |
| 18:17 |
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| 18:21 |
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| 18:26 |
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| 18:27 |
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enrevanche |
call name.toString |
| 18:27 |
|
carljokl |
or any non static member... |
| 18:27 |
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| 18:27 |
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enrevanche |
this.name = name.toString() |
| 18:29 |
|
TheShade |
somebody's benchmarking here... |
| 18:30 |
|
shelajev |
TheShade! :) welcome to the vjug |
| 18:30 |
|
TheShade |
Yup |
| 18:30 |
|
carljokl |
....Java Rockstar... |
| 18:30 |
|
TheShade |
Oh, now we will see how great getClass() is... :D |
| 18:33 |
|
tocsa_CCJUG_NJUG |
Why is that much speed difference? |
| 18:33 |
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| 18:33 |
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| 18:34 |
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sjmaple |
https://twitter.com/shipilev/status/562664253065539586 |
| 18:35 |
|
sjmaple |
one of yours, TheShade? :) |
| 18:35 |
|
TheShade |
Oh. So the intrinsic for getClass() that throws exception uses the exception cached by the VM, I would guess |
| 18:35 |
|
TheShade |
It is a bad idea, indeed. |
| 18:38 |
|
TheShade |
Yes, John Rose's favorite non-trick: using getClass for null-checks |
| 18:39 |
|
sjmaple |
so, why such a bad idea? |
| 18:39 |
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| 18:39 |
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shelajev |
is anyone lost now with this jump to methodhandles? good we're back on the reflection track |
| 18:39 |
|
TheShade |
because it says in that NullChecks.java |
| 18:39 |
|
TheShade |
TL;DR: Fear not, my little friends, use Objects.requireNonNull. |
| 18:39 |
|
TheShade |
Stop using these obfuscating Object.getClass() checks, |
| 18:39 |
|
TheShade |
those rely on non-related intrinsic performance, potentially |
| 18:39 |
|
TheShade |
not available everywhere. |
| 18:40 |
|
TheShade |
The usual case of *not* throwing the exception is not actually faster |
| 18:40 |
|
TheShade |
and the way compiler makes stackless NPEs for getClass() is weird at best, and probably a usability bug that should be fixed |
| 18:42 |
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| 18:43 |
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TheShade |
ah, ok, it would seem -XX:-OmitStackTraceInFastThrow will do the stack traces even in getClass() case... |
| 18:44 |
|
TheShade |
here: http://hg.openjdk.java.net/jdk8u/jdk8u/hotspot/file/0499e4a89c76/src/share/vm/opto/graphKit.cpp#l550 |
| 18:45 |
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| 18:46 |
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| 18:46 |
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| 18:46 |
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| 18:46 |
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hello |
helloworldpython |
| 18:46 |
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| 18:46 |
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| 18:46 |
|
Heinz |
hello everyone |
| 18:46 |
|
TheShade |
Here you are, Heinz |
| 18:47 |
|
sjmaple |
18:39 <TheShade> because it says in that NullChecks.java |
| 18:47 |
|
sjmaple |
18:39 <TheShade> TL;DR: Fear not, my little friends, use Objects.requireNonNull. |
| 18:47 |
|
sjmaple |
18:39 <TheShade> Stop using these obfuscating Object.getClass() checks, |
| 18:47 |
|
sjmaple |
18:39 <TheShade> those rely on non-related intrinsic performance, potentially |
| 18:47 |
|
sjmaple |
18:39 <TheShade> not available everywhere. |
| 18:47 |
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sjmaple |
18:40 ⇐ Guest2283 quit (b210a31e gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.178.16.163.30) Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client |
| 18:47 |
|
sjmaple |
18:40 <TheShade> The usual case of *not* throwing the exception is not actually faster |
| 18:47 |
|
sjmaple |
18:41 <TheShade> and the way compiler makes stackless NPEs for getClass() is weird at best, and probably a usability bug that should be fixed |
| 18:47 |
|
sjmaple |
18:41 → Guest2283 joined ⇐ Guest30627, Noordsestern and NrgXnat quit |
| 18:47 |
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sjmaple |
18:43 <TheShade> ah, ok, it would seem -XX:-OmitStackTraceInFastThrow will do the stack traces even in getClass() case... |
| 18:47 |
|
sjmaple |
18:44 <TheShade> here: http://hg.openjdk.java.net/jdk8u/jdk8u/hotspot/file/0499e4a89c76/src/share/vm/opto/graphKit.cpp#l550 |
| 18:47 |
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| 18:47 |
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| 18:48 |
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| 18:48 |
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TheShade |
Yes, nothing is contradictory, just do not use the getClass() :D |
| 18:49 |
|
TheShade |
The comment there in the graphKit seems to imply that many of those compiler-generated exceptions are not visible to the users, and so you are just lucky with those stackless NPEs :) |
| 18:50 |
|
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| 18:52 |
|
carljokl |
0.o |
| 18:52 |
|
TheShade |
Look at the code that Heinz just wrote, and understand what would your getClass() trick look like for future devs :D |
| 18:54 |
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| 18:55 |
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mikeb |
Heinz is muted |
| 18:55 |
|
TheShade |
YES |
| 18:55 |
|
joshuaw |
mikeb: refresh your browser |
| 18:56 |
|
Heinz |
can you hear me? |
| 18:56 |
|
joshuaw |
yes |
| 18:56 |
|
TheShade |
yes, we can hear you |
| 18:56 |
|
pm771 |
OK |
| 18:56 |
|
joshuaw |
I can hear you |
| 18:56 |
|
pm771 |
sound and claer |
| 18:56 |
|
mikeb |
OK now thanks. |
| 18:56 |
|
joshuaw |
sometimes the connection needs a refresh |
| 18:56 |
|
alxs |
Sitting on the outside here, I can tell there is quite some lag |
| 18:57 |
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| 18:57 |
|
sjmaple |
usually there's around a 30-40 second lag |
| 18:57 |
|
alxs |
Sounds about right, y |
| 18:57 |
|
TheShade |
so the video is 30 seconds behind? |
| 18:58 |
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| 18:58 |
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joshuaw |
yes TheShade |
| 18:58 |
|
alxs |
Coming straight to us from the future! |
| 18:58 |
|
TheShade |
bummer |
| 18:58 |
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| 18:58 |
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sjmaple |
the stream (audo and video) is 30 seconds behind the G+ recording |
| 18:58 |
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| 18:58 |
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pm771 |
Is all this code going to be posted somewhere later? |
| 18:59 |
|
sjmaple |
we can ask :) |
| 18:59 |
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| 18:59 |
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sjmaple |
probably on github somewhere already |
| 18:59 |
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| 19:00 |
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| 19:01 |
|
TheShade |
I think video and audio are desynced now? |
| 19:01 |
|
sjmaple |
very slightly, not much |
| 19:01 |
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| 19:02 |
|
sjmaple |
<1s |
| 19:03 |
|
alxs |
Milage may vary actually based on my experience... G+ also splitbrains every now and then et al... Distributed system fun |
| 19:03 |
|
alxs |
Now G+ live may well be an entirely different beastactually |
| 19:03 |
|
alxs |
s/beastactually/beast actually |
| 19:04 |
|
sjmaple |
I think we might reconsider our alternatives soon to see whether we can do better |
| 19:04 |
|
* alxs |
experiences a very nice broadcast actually |
| 19:04 |
|
sjmaple |
ok, cool - thanks for feedback |
| 19:05 |
|
TheShade |
I wonder if there is something like Coursera-like marker-over-slides broadcaster. Should be useful for my talks... |
| 19:06 |
|
joshuaw |
sjmaple: https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/firefox-hello-video-and-voice-conversations-online |
| 19:06 |
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| 19:07 |
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| 19:12 |
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TheShade |
Oh, I see my share of bad ideas every day, thanks Heinz :) |
| 19:13 |
|
sjmaple |
any questions for Heinz, pls ask now |
| 19:13 |
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| 19:13 |
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TheShade |
This IRC thing is rather distracting for the speaker, I see... |
| 19:13 |
|
Christian |
Is it possible to replace method bodies with reflection somehow? |
| 19:13 |
|
alxs |
Someone asked about the code being available? |
| 19:13 |
|
carljokl |
I imagine in practice though that people calling new instance would know about the classes they are instantiating |
| 19:15 |
|
sjmaple |
thanks Christian, alxs :) |
| 19:15 |
|
TheShade |
Reflection is about *introspection*, not modification. :) |
| 19:15 |
|
joshuaw |
http://www.javaspecialists.eu/ |
| 19:15 |
|
alxs |
Wasn't my question ... But, np ;) |
| 19:16 |
|
sjmaple |
:D |
| 19:16 |
|
unfortunate_inte |
can you call a private constructor with reflection? |
| 19:17 |
|
shelajev |
you can make is accessible maybe |
| 19:17 |
|
Dentharg |
I've seen so mind bending tricks here.. Java will never be the same again :) |
| 19:17 |
|
ad_ |
yes you can with setAccessible(true) |
| 19:17 |
|
sjmaple |
haha @Dentharg |
| 19:18 |
|
TheShade |
The popular question that everyone is asking: "How would I find all the classes in the given package with reflection?" |
| 19:19 |
|
joshuaw |
did anyone catch the use of 10_000_000 early on? I did not know about that. http://docs.oracle.com/javase/7/docs/technotes/guides/language/underscores-literals.html |
| 19:19 |
|
TheShade |
yes, available since JDK 7 |
| 19:19 |
|
joshuaw |
yup |
| 19:19 |
|
sjmaple |
Yeh, that was part of project coin |
| 19:20 |
|
sjmaple |
a nice addition |
| 19:21 |
|
TheShade |
now you have to de-learn doing 1024_1024 ;) |
| 19:22 |
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carljokl |
Don't do this at home....or work... |
| 19:23 |
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| 19:24 |
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| 19:24 |
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sjmaple |
make sure you have a Java Champion present when attempting this at home |
| 19:24 |
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| 19:26 |
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| 19:27 |
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sjmaple |
TheShade: do you know the best way? |
| 19:27 |
|
sjmaple |
:) |
| 19:28 |
|
TheShade |
that's a tricky question |
| 19:28 |
|
carljokl |
I think it is down to the way ClassLoaders are not set in stone |
| 19:28 |
|
carljokl |
The class definition might not be on the file system |
| 19:29 |
|
carljokl |
The ways I have seen around that has involved hacks looking at .class files on the file system and figuring the names out from that but it isn't clean or robust |
| 19:29 |
|
sjmaple |
any final questions |
| 19:30 |
|
carljokl |
May not be possible to know what classes are in a package |
| 19:30 |
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| 19:30 |
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TheShade |
Noooooooooooooooooo |
| 19:30 |
|
* TheShade |
shudders |
| 19:31 |
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| 19:31 |
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TheShade |
I think it's better to intercept the classloading with Instrumentation |
| 19:31 |
|
shelajev |
yeah, didn't think of that :) |
| 19:31 |
|
shelajev |
when you have a hammer... |
| 19:31 |
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carljokl |
Reflect before using reflection |
| 19:31 |
|
reader |
thanks very much for all this :) |
| 19:31 |
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| 19:32 |
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TheShade |
The next step from reflection is methodhandled. That's some heroin stuff. |
| 19:32 |
|
TheShade |
*methodhandles |
| 19:34 |
|
TheShade |
volatile is unnecessary here; plain field store works |
| 19:35 |
|
tocsa_CCJUG_NJUG |
I haven't seen underscore in integer constants before |
| 19:36 |
|
joshuaw |
tocsa_CCJUG_NJUG: http://docs.oracle.com/javase/7/docs/technotes/guides/language/underscores-literals.html |
| 19:36 |
|
tocsa_CCJUG_NJUG |
I see http://kodejava.org/how-to-use-underscore-in-numeric-literals/ |
| 19:36 |
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tocsa_CCJUG_NJUG |
JDK 7 |
| 19:36 |
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joshuaw |
yup |
| 19:36 |
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TheShade |
While you are at it, you can also run with -Xint! |
| 19:38 |
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VladimirSitnikov |
Another question: "should I cache java.lang.reflect stuff manually"? |
| 19:38 |
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TheShade |
SoftReferences are great idea, if the alternative is OOME. Trying to get makeshift LRU caching with SoftReference -- that's dumb! |
| 19:40 |
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TheShade |
If you need to cache any j.l.reflect data, then it should probably be done in JDK itself |
| 19:40 |
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VladimirSitnikov |
Field.getAnnotation will be dog slow unless you cache Field |
| 19:40 |
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VladimirSitnikov |
JDK can NOT cache Field since Field is _mutable_ :( |
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TheShade |
I thought Peter Levart et al. cached annotations |
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reader |
just in time for the football I've got 10_000 on Paris thanks again :) |
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VladimirSitnikov |
as well as mutable is AccessibleObject |
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TheShade |
Field is mutable how? |
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VladimirSitnikov |
AccessibleObject |
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VladimirSitnikov |
setAccessible(true/false) stuf |
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VladimirSitnikov |
f |
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TheShade |
Ah... |
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javajon |
Thank you! |
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nithin |
thanks for the interesting session |
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sjmaple |
thanks for joining everyone! |
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TheShade |
So, you can drop the Field caches when anyone does setAccessible |
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sjmaple |
and thanks to Heinz for the session! |
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TheShade |
(I think) |
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VladimirSitnikov |
I think the cache itself can be kept out of a Field object |
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TheShade |
Wait, I don't get it. Why can't we return the canonical instance of Field? |
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VladimirSitnikov |
we can't because different consumers might invoke setAccessible at their wish |
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VladimirSitnikov |
the first one to call (true) will break "the instance" for others |
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TheShade |
I wonder if Javadoc for AccessibleObject actually says the setAccessible affects "the reflected object" (as in, the actual field) globally |
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TheShade |
No, it seems to mean the flag is treated in per-AccessibleObject fashion |
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VladimirSitnikov |
" flag a reflected object " |
| 19:50 |
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TheShade |
I think the "reflected object" means the actual field here |
| 19:50 |
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TheShade |
but anyhow, the AO.setAccessible explicitly mentions the flag for the AO itself |
| 19:51 |
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TheShade |
therefore, yeah, we can't cache AOs |
| 19:52 |
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VladimirSitnikov |
so it would be nice if declaredAnnotations could be reused |
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TheShade |
they are reused for the Class itself, I think |
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TheShade |
but wait, there is a cache in j.l.Field already |
| 19:54 |
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TheShade |
what's "dog slow" about it? |
| 19:55 |
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TheShade |
e.g. http://hg.openjdk.java.net/jdk8u/jdk8u/jdk/file/87c95759b92b/src/share/classes/java/lang/reflect/Field.java#l1142 |
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VladimirSitnikov |
this is per Field cache |
| 19:56 |
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VladimirSitnikov |
ah! |
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VladimirSitnikov |
8 |
| 19:56 |
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VladimirSitnikov |
I am still stuck with JRE7 |
| 19:57 |
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TheShade |
in jdk9, it's a DCL-like construct: http://hg.openjdk.java.net/jdk9/jdk9/jdk/file/044de779404d/src/java.base/share/classes/java/lang/reflect/Field.java#l1142 |
| 19:57 |
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TheShade |
well... good luck with that :) |
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TheShade |
All right, JMM Pragmatics is going to be fun |
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TheShade |
The only thing I have to do is *close* IRC during the talk :] |
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shelajev |
TheShade, we'll monitor irc for you to forward all the best bits in the form of questions :) |
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shelajev |
thanks to everyone! |
| 20:22 |
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shelajev |
thanks to Heinz for the great session |
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shelajev |
I had lots of fun |
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TheShade |
all right, till next time |
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* TheShade |
is still waiting for the announcement |
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shelajev |
dp you know the date yet? |
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