| Time |
S |
Nick |
Message |
| 07:42 |
|
|
prologic joined #sourcefu |
| 14:40 |
|
aditsu |
so.. on the topic of communication, looks like Google Hangouts will shut down in 2020 :( https://www.androidauthority.com/google-hangouts-shutting-down-930536/ |
| 14:40 |
|
aditsu |
is there any decent instant messenger left?! |
| 14:42 |
|
aditsu |
seems that I'm mainly left with Skype, which is kinda crap |
| 14:43 |
|
aditsu |
(icq still exists, but nobody uses it anymore) |
| 14:51 |
|
pdurbin |
Huh, I hadn't heard Google Hangouts is going EOL. |
| 14:51 |
|
* pdurbin |
clicks |
| 14:52 |
|
aditsu |
there were some vague announcements before, but now it seems pretty definitive |
| 14:54 |
|
aditsu |
ah, there's an official update: "Google’s Scott Johnston has chimed in and denies that any decisions have been made about the timeline of legacy Hangouts’ shutdown. Confusingly, however, he says that users of consumer Hangouts users will be somehow “upgraded” to Hangouts Chat and Hangouts Meet, both being enterprise-focused products that fill different needs." |
| 14:55 |
|
pdurbin |
I've started using "Meet" at work and it seemed fine. I don't know what "Hangouts Chat" is. |
| 14:55 |
|
pdurbin |
I was just thinking how I don't hear the term "instant messager" as much anymore. I heard it a lot in the 90s. |
| 14:56 |
|
aditsu |
no idea, but maybe it won't be a total shutdown.. just some kind of forced migration to something possibly different? |
| 14:56 |
|
pdurbin |
Yeah, a migration, I guess. |
| 14:58 |
|
aditsu |
the worst thing is that the majority of people just don't care... they're prefectly happy using whatsapp or other similar garbage |
| 14:58 |
|
pdurbin |
aditsu: do you consider SMS to be instant messaging. Now that https://messages.android.com exists I do. :) Before that thing existed, I wouldn't have, but now I can type SMS messages with a keyboard from a desktop so it's been a game changer for me. Web only though. It would be nice to have a fat client. |
| 14:58 |
|
aditsu |
pdurbin: well, SMS is expen$$$ive, also it's tied to a phone |
| 14:59 |
|
pdurbin |
Oh, I have unlimited SMS on my plan. |
| 14:59 |
|
aditsu |
I get charged per message |
| 15:00 |
|
pdurbin |
And apparently, the call that thing "Messages for web". See "Check your messages on your computer" at https://support.google.com/messages/answer/7611075 |
| 15:00 |
|
aditsu |
anything that requires a phone = *INSTANTLY* disqualified |
| 15:01 |
|
pdurbin |
Before "messages for web" I would nag my brother to get on a common chat platform with me. Now I just SMS him. Text him. With a keyboard. It's great. |
| 15:01 |
|
pdurbin |
Complete game changer. |
| 15:01 |
|
aditsu |
well, I can use a remote keyboard and type in any phone app from my computer, that's not the issue |
| 15:02 |
|
pdurbin |
What's the issue? |
| 15:02 |
|
aditsu |
the fact that it requires a phone (and phone number) in the first place, and in the case of SMS, the cost |
| 15:03 |
|
pdurbin |
Sure. Makes sense. |
| 15:03 |
|
pdurbin |
What's the closest to what you want? Skype, you said? |
| 15:04 |
|
aditsu |
I guess so.. and Hangouts as long as I'm still able to use it |
| 15:04 |
|
pdurbin |
Ok, and what's wrong with Skype? |
| 15:05 |
|
pdurbin |
I have a Skype account but I barely ever use it. |
| 15:05 |
|
aditsu |
Yahoo Messenger is dead, MSN is dead, ICQ is kinda alive but.. as I said, nobody uses it |
| 15:05 |
|
pdurbin |
AOL Instant Messenger (AIM) is also dead. Shut down. |
| 15:05 |
|
aditsu |
yeah |
| 15:05 |
|
aditsu |
Skype is proprietary, owned by microsoft, the Android app is buggy |
| 15:06 |
|
pdurbin |
A lot of stuff I use is suddenly owned by Microsoft. :) |
| 15:06 |
|
aditsu |
the only "free" way to use it is through the web interface (there's a pidgin plugin for that) |
| 15:06 |
|
pdurbin |
Authors of the Halloween documents. :) |
| 15:07 |
|
aditsu |
they've changed, but I'm still no fan |
| 15:07 |
|
pdurbin |
Yeah, I don't think we should be dependent on proprietary software for instant messaging. You're mostly talking about text, right? Text is easier than voice and video. |
| 15:07 |
|
aditsu |
the app is also very slow and heavy |
| 15:08 |
|
aditsu |
yeah.. I also use Skype for international calls, but that's a different topic |
| 15:08 |
|
aditsu |
I'm mainly talking about instant text messages |
| 15:09 |
|
pdurbin |
me too |
| 15:09 |
|
pdurbin |
I'm a text person. |
| 15:09 |
|
pdurbin |
I'm not a giffy person. |
| 15:09 |
|
pdurbin |
I'm an emoticon person. I'm not much of an emoji person. |
| 15:09 |
|
aditsu |
well, I don't mind emojis and "stickers", but they're not a priority |
| 15:10 |
|
pdurbin |
yeah |
| 15:11 |
|
pdurbin |
What about XMPP? It's not proprietary. It never took off. Why not? Maybe bear knows. |
| 15:11 |
|
aditsu |
well, Hangouts kinda uses it |
| 15:11 |
|
pdurbin |
It used to. |
| 15:11 |
|
pdurbin |
Or maybe that was Gtalk. |
| 15:11 |
|
pdurbin |
I used to be able to connect to Gtalk with Pidgin. It was great. |
| 15:12 |
|
pdurbin |
I could even create ad hoc rooms. |
| 15:12 |
|
aditsu |
well, I'm signed into Hangouts right now using pidgin, and the protocol type it lists is XMPP |
| 15:13 |
|
aditsu |
unless it's lying :p |
| 15:14 |
|
pdurbin |
Oh, I didn't know that still worked. Interesting. |
| 15:14 |
|
pdurbin |
So you're an XMPP person. That's cool. I used to be. |
| 15:15 |
|
aditsu |
I'm not a fan of the protocol itself, but I'm fine with using it |
| 15:15 |
|
pdurbin |
Sure. That's sort of how I feel about IRC. :) |
| 15:16 |
|
aditsu |
Google added their own extensions though, not sure how much it can interoperate with other servers |
| 15:16 |
|
pdurbin |
So what's the solution? Should we rally around XMPP? Make XMPP Great Again! |
| 15:17 |
|
aditsu |
the protocol is only a small factor, it's all about the market adoption |
| 15:17 |
|
pdurbin |
Yeah. |
| 15:17 |
|
pdurbin |
network effect |
| 15:18 |
|
aditsu |
and it looks like I'm fighting a losing battle against the phone-based apps |
| 15:19 |
|
aditsu |
in HK (and many other countries) everybody and their dog uses Whatsapp, in Japan it's Line.. |
| 15:19 |
|
aditsu |
in China it's wechat (getting somewhat popular in HK too) |
| 15:20 |
|
aditsu |
then there's facebork messenger which I think requires either a fb account or a phone number, possibly both |
| 15:24 |
|
pdurbin |
I didn't have WhatApp installed until I went to Indonesia in Map. Previously, I was using Google Hangouts with my contact there but it was clear that life would be much easier if I started using WhatsApps instead. While I was there a lot of people connected with me on WhatsApp. |
| 15:25 |
|
pdurbin |
Facebook Messenger is one of the platforms my brother is on but again I'm glad that now I can use SMS with him more easily, more comfortably, from a keyboard. |
| 15:28 |
|
aditsu |
if that RCS thing takes off and works through the net without extra costs, then it will be a good replacement for SMS, but that still doesn't fit my requirements |
| 15:29 |
|
aditsu |
btw I think I tried to use the web SMS thing on Android, and it didn't work at all |
| 15:30 |
|
aditsu |
I can give it another try now |
| 15:32 |
|
aditsu |
"Something went wrong. Try again in a few minutes." |
| 15:34 |
|
aditsu |
I think that was the error last time too |
| 15:36 |
|
pdurbin |
I was listening to http://blog.cognitect.com/cognicast/2018/10/25/dajana-guenther-cognicast-episode-146 the other day and around 2:40 the guest is asked, "How many chat systems are you logged into in at a given moment?" She answer was 8, but the 8th was Slack which expands to 12 more. |
| 15:38 |
|
pdurbin |
Bummer that "messages for web" doesn't work for you. I love it. I'm not very familiar with RCS. I guess I'm happy enough with SMS for now. I don't log into Google Hangouts anymore. Again, primarily I use SMS for instant messaging. IRC or Gitter for group chat. Slack at work. |
| 15:41 |
|
aditsu |
well, SMS is no go, except for occasional important messages to people I can't contact another way |
| 15:46 |
|
aditsu |
I don't know if there even is any unlimited SMS plan in HK (except for messages within the same phone network) |
| 15:46 |
|
pdurbin |
Interesting. Quite different here. I mean, back in the day I had to pay ten cents for every text. But that was quite a while ago. |
| 15:47 |
|
aditsu |
different market, different rules I guess |
| 15:50 |
|
pdurbin |
I guess I think of all these systems as inboxes. I try to reduce the number of inboxes in my life. SMS is an inbox. So is each of my email addresses. 3 active email addresses plus one more for spammy stuff that I rarely check. Wechat is an inbox where I check IRC and Gitter messages. Voicemail is an inbox. Slack at work. That's plenty of inboxes. |
| 15:51 |
|
aditsu |
you check IRC messages in Wechat? what? |
| 15:51 |
|
pdurbin |
Whoops. Weechat*. |
| 15:52 |
|
aditsu |
ah :) |
| 15:53 |
|
aditsu |
well, I have a bunch of inboxes grouped into one called "phone notifications" :p |
| 15:53 |
|
pdurbin |
Oh, I guess Twitter is an inbox too. Direct messages, @mentions. I log in maybe once a week. I'm sure there are other inboxes I'm not thinking of. |
| 15:53 |
|
aditsu |
but not everything |
| 15:54 |
|
pdurbin |
Yeah, a lot of these inboxes I keep off my phone. No work email. No Slack. No Twitter. No weechat. |
| 15:55 |
|
pdurbin |
Oh, WhatsApps is an inbox too. I do have that installed on my phone. It's mostly people I met in Indonesia. Nice people. Friendly messages once in a while. So I haven't deleted it. And I'm not sure how I would check WhatsApp messages without the app on my phone. |
| 15:58 |
|
pdurbin |
I recently signed up for Discord to see what all the excitement is about. It was mentioned on a couple podcasts. I don't know. It's an inbox I don't plan to check very often. Maybe a few times a year. |
| 15:58 |
|
pdurbin |
I guess LinkedIn is sort of an inbox. I get the occasional interesting message from someone I know. I check it maybe once a month. |
| 15:59 |
|
aditsu |
"without the app on my phone" -> you can't |
| 15:59 |
|
aditsu |
that's why I refuse to use it |
| 16:00 |
|
pdurbin |
Oh. Bummer. |
| 16:00 |
|
pdurbin |
And WhatsApp is owned by Facebook. I'm not on Facebook. |
| 16:01 |
|
aditsu |
it also used to require access to EVERYTHING on your phone, but it seems that they switched to the runtime permission model at some point |
| 16:01 |
|
aditsu |
oh, I deleted my facebork account years ago |
| 16:02 |
|
pdurbin |
Yeah, these days Android is better about giving you control over what apps can do. Do you "really" need my location? The app I installed to tune my daughter's cello asks for your location. |
| 16:02 |
|
aditsu |
it's separate from fb though |
| 16:02 |
|
pdurbin |
Well, I imagine Facebook has my phone number because I joined WhatsApp. |
| 16:05 |
|
aditsu |
I use "datuner lite" |
| 16:07 |
|
pdurbin |
contains ads |
| 16:08 |
|
pdurbin |
but thanks |
| 16:09 |
|
aditsu |
I see people are complaining about the latest update.. the version I have has practically no ads |
| 16:09 |
|
pdurbin |
I'm also trying this one: https://github.com/gstraube/cythara/pull/19#issuecomment-439714912 |
| 16:22 |
|
pdurbin |
aditsu: by the way, #openknot is a place where some of us talk about communication stuff, software, protocols, etc. |
