| Time |
S |
Nick |
Message |
| 00:22 |
|
pdurbin |
semiosis: I can't believe you were so grumpy about that talk. very enjoyable :) |
| 01:18 |
|
pdurbin |
nice. built-in support for schema migrations: https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/1.7/releases/1.7/ |
| 06:59 |
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| 07:58 |
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| 09:14 |
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| 12:37 |
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| 12:40 |
|
pdurbin |
aditsu: I wonder if you agree with "wicket man, its like building a desktop app rather than a web one... the people who like it, seem to *not like * web technolgoies" --Technodrome http://www.evanchooly.com/logs/%2523%2523jsf/2013-04-12 |
| 12:41 |
|
pdurbin |
whoops, that was supposed to be a follow up for a different channel: http://irclog.greptilian.com/friendlyjava/2014-09-02#i_75202 |
| 15:22 |
|
pdurbin |
"data work is as much about joining things together as it is selecting and pruning. Like building a data chair —- you turn a dataset on the data lathe, and then glue it to the appropriate slot in another dataset" http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/impactofsocialsciences/2014/09/01/data-carpentry-skilled-craft-data-science/ |
| 16:09 |
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| 16:09 |
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Topic for #sourcefu is now http://sourcefu.com | logs at http://irclog.greptilian.com/sourcefu/today |
| 17:02 |
|
pdurbin |
http://blog.fogus.me/2011/09/08/10-technical-papers-every-programmer-should-read-at-least-twice/ sounds good. via http://www.functionalgeekery.com/episode-3-fogus/ |
| 18:49 |
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| 19:01 |
|
aditsu |
pdurbin: I don't think that's true, but I would say wicket makes it really easy to use web technologies, it helps deal with the tricky details so you can focus on what you actually want to do |
| 19:01 |
|
aditsu |
in some ways it's indeed like building a desktop app (it can abstract away the client-server stuff), but I find it much better and nicer than swing |
| 19:01 |
|
pdurbin |
sounds nice |
| 19:02 |
|
pdurbin |
meanwhile, I'm pointing out problems with JSF: http://echelog.com/logs/browse/netbeans/1409695200 |
| 19:04 |
|
aditsu |
"have you tried spring or struts or wicket? something action-based rather than component-based?" -> wicket is component-based |
| 19:05 |
|
pdurbin |
oh! |
| 19:05 |
|
pdurbin |
interesting |
| 19:05 |
|
aditsu |
although I don't know much about action-based frameworks :p |
| 19:06 |
|
pdurbin |
I'm interested in trying something besides jsf |
| 19:07 |
|
semiosis |
angular front & jax-rs back |
| 19:07 |
|
aditsu |
hmm, so jsf is component-based too.. maybe I'll check it out someday |
| 19:08 |
|
pdurbin |
aditsu: maybe you'll love it |
| 19:09 |
|
pdurbin |
semiosis: yeah. I should just try angular. like everyone else. it's the new jquery |
| 19:10 |
|
semiosis |
hardly |
| 19:10 |
|
pdurbin |
heh |
| 19:10 |
|
semiosis |
except for the fact that both are popular because they are awesome, they're really quite different |
| 19:10 |
|
aditsu |
what does angular do that jquery doesn't? |
| 19:10 |
|
pdurbin |
oh sure. I just meant they're popular |
| 19:11 |
|
semiosis |
angular separates logic from presentation, providing a clean & powerful template language by simply extending html |
| 19:11 |
|
pdurbin |
aditsu: it's more the other way, I think. anything you can do in jquery you can do in angular |
| 19:12 |
|
pdurbin |
semiosis: amiright |
| 19:12 |
|
aditsu |
semiosis: client-side template language? |
| 19:12 |
|
pdurbin |
angular is a client side mvc framework |
| 19:12 |
|
semiosis |
aditsu: yes |
| 19:13 |
|
semiosis |
pdurbin: not entirely |
| 19:13 |
|
aditsu |
strange |
| 19:13 |
|
pdurbin |
semiosis: so you still use jquery for some things? |
| 19:14 |
|
semiosis |
yes, in fact angular depends on jquery, but the beauty of angular is that your presentation is declarative, like html itself, so you dont need to use imperative jquery commands to manipulate the presentation |
| 19:14 |
|
pdurbin |
ah, so angular ships with jquery |
| 19:14 |
|
semiosis |
angular has two-way binding between model & view |
| 19:15 |
|
semiosis |
so instead of if (foo) $('#item').hide() you can just put in the html <div ng-hide="foo"> |
| 19:15 |
|
semiosis |
the div appears/hides as foo changes, you dont need to reevaluate anything |
| 19:15 |
|
semiosis |
it's so great! |
| 19:16 |
|
pdurbin |
hee hee |
| 19:16 |
|
semiosis |
pdurbin: iirc it ships with a minimal jquery substitute but usually you'll have a full jquery in your page anyway |
| 19:16 |
|
pdurbin |
oh |
| 19:20 |
|
aditsu |
hmm, apparently we're using angular where I work now (but I'm not exactly working on the web stuff) |
| 19:26 |
|
pdurbin |
hmm. I don't think we're using it yet |
| 19:34 |
|
aditsu |
you may not need it |
| 19:36 |
|
pdurbin |
well, sure. right now the server renders the html |
| 19:41 |
|
pdurbin |
semiosis: if you had to use a server side java web framework, what would you use? |
| 19:41 |
|
semiosis |
lots of vodka |
| 19:41 |
|
semiosis |
;) |
| 19:41 |
|
pdurbin |
sounds like the voice of experience |
| 19:41 |
|
semiosis |
not really |
| 19:42 |
|
pdurbin |
semiosis: which have you used. are you a fan of struts 2 or something? |
| 19:42 |
|
semiosis |
hardly any |
| 19:42 |
|
semiosis |
i did some maintenance on a struts 1 app for a while |
| 19:42 |
|
semiosis |
i think it was struts 1 |
| 19:42 |
|
semiosis |
nightmare |
| 19:42 |
|
pdurbin |
heh |
| 19:43 |
|
pdurbin |
semiosis: so what about... django or rails or something |
| 19:43 |
|
semiosis |
well you know i'm big on php. <3 zend framework 2 |
| 19:43 |
|
semiosis |
but on java, i'd probably go with a popular one... spring mvc, maybe grails |
| 19:44 |
|
semiosis |
but i can't imagine ever going back to that |
| 19:46 |
|
* aditsu |
can't imagine ever using php |
| 19:46 |
|
semiosis |
<3 php |
| 19:50 |
|
pdurbin |
semiosis: I started listening to http://phptownhall.com and I like it. funny intro song too |
| 19:51 |
|
semiosis |
our arch at work is pretty much this: core services written in java accessed through a rest api; 3rd party integrations in php; management UI in angular |
| 19:57 |
|
semiosis |
another reason i dont like doing front-end in java is that java devs are expensive. |
| 20:22 |
|
pdurbin |
the 3rd party integrations... they integrate with the core services? |
| 20:35 |
|
semiosis |
yep, like if we get a photo upload that's supposed to be delivered to someone (by sms, email, whatever) the core system sends a json object to another service that speaks the 3rd party api |
| 20:35 |
|
semiosis |
...or knows how to properly format the email |
| 20:35 |
|
semiosis |
or whatever |
| 20:36 |
|
semiosis |
i guess you could call those microservices |
| 20:37 |
|
semiosis |
in fact, that describes it really well... http://martinfowler.com/articles/microservices.html |
| 20:38 |
|
pdurbin |
semiosis: so... why not write those in java too? |
| 20:38 |
|
semiosis |
overhead |
| 20:38 |
|
pdurbin |
hmm. ok |
| 20:39 |
|
pdurbin |
php is lighter |
| 20:39 |
|
semiosis |
also every 3rd party service has a php lib, few have java |
| 20:40 |
|
pdurbin |
ah. sure |
| 20:49 |
|
pdurbin |
why not write the core services in php? |
| 20:54 |
|
semiosis |
:) |
| 20:55 |
|
pdurbin |
you know you want to |
| 20:55 |
|
semiosis |
it's the core of our business, we wanted to make it as good as possible |
| 20:55 |
|
semiosis |
java is years ahead of everything else for writing high quality software |
| 20:56 |
|
semiosis |
project management, ORM, ESB, etc |
| 20:56 |
|
* pdurbin |
thinks about that |
| 20:57 |
|
semiosis |
ever heard of a sql injection attack on a javaee app? |
| 20:58 |
|
pdurbin |
I like Java well enough. |
| 20:58 |
|
semiosis |
so all of our access control, database & filesystem operations are in java |
| 21:00 |
|
pdurbin |
sounds fine. no objection :) |
| 23:04 |
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