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IRC log for #sourcefu, 2014-09-03

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Time S Nick Message
00:22 pdurbin semiosis: I can't believe you were so grumpy about that talk. very enjoyable :)
01:18 pdurbin nice. built-in support for schema migrations: https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/1.7/releases/1.7/
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12:40 pdurbin aditsu: I wonder if you agree with "wicket man, its like building a desktop app rather than a web one... the people who like it, seem to *not like * web technolgoies" --Technodrome http://www.evanchooly.com/logs/%2523%2523jsf/2013-04-12
12:41 pdurbin whoops, that was supposed to be a follow up for a different channel: http://irclog.greptilian.com/friendlyjava/2014-09-02#i_75202
15:22 pdurbin "data work is as much about joining things together as it is selecting and pruning. Like building a data chair —- you turn a dataset on the data lathe, and then glue it to the appropriate slot in another dataset" http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/impactofsocialsciences/2014/09/01/data-carpentry-skilled-craft-data-science/
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16:09 Topic for #sourcefu is now http://sourcefu.com | logs at http://irclog.greptilian.com/sourcefu/today
17:02 pdurbin http://blog.fogus.me/2011/09/08/10-technical-papers-every-programmer-should-read-at-least-twice/ sounds good. via http://www.functionalgeekery.com/episode-3-fogus/
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19:01 aditsu pdurbin: I don't think that's true, but I would say wicket makes it really easy to use web technologies, it helps deal with the tricky details so you can focus on what you actually want to do
19:01 aditsu in some ways it's indeed like building a desktop app (it can abstract away the client-server stuff), but I find it much better and nicer than swing
19:01 pdurbin sounds nice
19:02 pdurbin meanwhile, I'm pointing out problems with JSF: http://echelog.com/logs/browse/netbeans/1409695200
19:04 aditsu "have you tried spring or struts or wicket? something action-based rather than component-based?" -> wicket is component-based
19:05 pdurbin oh!
19:05 pdurbin interesting
19:05 aditsu although I don't know much about action-based frameworks :p
19:06 pdurbin I'm interested in trying something besides jsf
19:07 semiosis angular front & jax-rs back
19:07 aditsu hmm, so jsf is component-based too.. maybe I'll check it out someday
19:08 pdurbin aditsu: maybe you'll love it
19:09 pdurbin semiosis: yeah. I should just try angular. like everyone else. it's the new jquery
19:10 semiosis hardly
19:10 pdurbin heh
19:10 semiosis except for the fact that both are popular because they are awesome, they're really quite different
19:10 aditsu what does angular do that jquery doesn't?
19:10 pdurbin oh sure. I just meant they're popular
19:11 semiosis angular separates logic from presentation, providing a clean & powerful template language by simply extending html
19:11 pdurbin aditsu: it's more the other way, I think. anything you can do in jquery you can do in angular
19:12 pdurbin semiosis: amiright
19:12 aditsu semiosis: client-side template language?
19:12 pdurbin angular is a client side mvc framework
19:12 semiosis aditsu: yes
19:13 semiosis pdurbin: not entirely
19:13 aditsu strange
19:13 pdurbin semiosis: so you still use jquery for some things?
19:14 semiosis yes, in fact angular depends on jquery, but the beauty of angular is that your presentation is declarative, like html itself, so you dont need to use imperative jquery commands to manipulate the presentation
19:14 pdurbin ah, so angular ships with jquery
19:14 semiosis angular has two-way binding between model & view
19:15 semiosis so instead of if (foo) $('#item').hide() you can just put in the html <div ng-hide="foo">
19:15 semiosis the div appears/hides as foo changes, you dont need to reevaluate anything
19:15 semiosis it's so great!
19:16 pdurbin hee hee
19:16 semiosis pdurbin: iirc it ships with a minimal jquery substitute but usually you'll have a full jquery in your page anyway
19:16 pdurbin oh
19:20 aditsu hmm, apparently we're using angular where I work now (but I'm not exactly working on the web stuff)
19:26 pdurbin hmm. I don't think we're using it yet
19:34 aditsu you may not need it
19:36 pdurbin well, sure. right now the server renders the html
19:41 pdurbin semiosis: if you had to use a server side java web framework, what would you use?
19:41 semiosis lots of vodka
19:41 semiosis ;)
19:41 pdurbin sounds like the voice of experience
19:41 semiosis not really
19:42 pdurbin semiosis: which have you used. are you a fan of struts 2 or something?
19:42 semiosis hardly any
19:42 semiosis i did some maintenance on a struts 1 app for a while
19:42 semiosis i think it was struts 1
19:42 semiosis nightmare
19:42 pdurbin heh
19:43 pdurbin semiosis: so what about... django or rails or something
19:43 semiosis well you know i'm big on php.  <3 zend framework 2
19:43 semiosis but on java, i'd probably go with a popular one... spring mvc, maybe grails
19:44 semiosis but i can't imagine ever going back to that
19:46 * aditsu can't imagine ever using php
19:46 semiosis <3 php
19:50 pdurbin semiosis: I started listening to http://phptownhall.com and I like it. funny intro song too
19:51 semiosis our arch at work is pretty much this: core services written in java accessed through a rest api; 3rd party integrations in php; management UI in angular
19:57 semiosis another reason i dont like doing front-end in java is that java devs are expensive.
20:22 pdurbin the 3rd party integrations... they integrate with the core services?
20:35 semiosis yep, like if we get a photo upload that's supposed to be delivered to someone (by sms, email, whatever) the core system sends a json object to another service that speaks the 3rd party api
20:35 semiosis ...or knows how to properly format the email
20:35 semiosis or whatever
20:36 semiosis i guess you could call those microservices
20:37 semiosis in fact, that describes it really well... http://martinfowler.com/articles/microservices.html
20:38 pdurbin semiosis: so... why not write those in java too?
20:38 semiosis overhead
20:38 pdurbin hmm. ok
20:39 pdurbin php is lighter
20:39 semiosis also every 3rd party service has a php lib, few have java
20:40 pdurbin ah. sure
20:49 pdurbin why not write the core services in php?
20:54 semiosis :)
20:55 pdurbin you know you want to
20:55 semiosis it's the core of our business, we wanted to make it as good as possible
20:55 semiosis java is years ahead of everything else for writing high quality software
20:56 semiosis project management, ORM, ESB, etc
20:56 * pdurbin thinks about that
20:57 semiosis ever heard of a sql injection attack on a javaee app?
20:58 pdurbin I like Java well enough.
20:58 semiosis so all of our access control, database & filesystem operations are in java
21:00 pdurbin sounds fine. no objection :)
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