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IRC log for #rest, 2015-02-07

#rest on freenode has been logged here from May 2014 until end of July 2018 but logging has been suspended because the channel has been riddled with spam since August 2018 with no end in site. See the following blog posts about the problem:

Until the spam problem has been dealt with and logging can resume, please visit our wiki at https://trygvis.io/rest-wiki/

Thanks.

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Time S Nick Message
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16:39 Judasbricot Hmmm i'm stuck on a problem when designing my REST API. I have a resource "payment" on which a user can make a POST to make the payment. When making a POST on it, it will start an asynchronous operation, thus resulting with the creation of a /payment/queue/"id" resource for monitoring the status of it
16:40 Judasbricot my question is the following, since the created resource is /payment/queue/"id". Does the make operation as to be on /payment/queue or /payment ? I read that POST is suitable for creating subordinate resource (while /payment and /payment/queue/id are sub-subordinate :-) !)
16:40 Judasbricot the POST operation*.
16:52 asdf` Judasbricot, just having an additional .../queue in the url doesn't mean there's a separate conceptual resource; there's nothing wrong if /payment/queue/1 is a child of /payment/42
16:53 asdf` Judasbricot, you could even make it so the payment url is /1a2b3c4d and POSTing to it creates a child resource at /a1b2c3d4, would be the same thing as far as REST is concerned
16:54 asdf` Judasbricot, (important thing is, issuing a GET at /payments/1 returns a representation that tells you there's a child resource at /payments/queue/42, ie. there's a link somewhere there)
17:05 Judasbricot thanks asdf`. In my understanding, you mean that the URL does not necessarly refer to a meaning, right ?
17:05 Judasbricot a meaning, a concept, whatever.. :)
17:06 trygvis an URL is to be treated as opaque
17:07 trygvis and a POST can do whatever it want
17:12 Judasbricot About the opaque URI, even R. Fielding is a little "opaque" about it :-) ! See: https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/rest-discuss/conversations/topics/3232 where he wrote "REST does not require that a URI be opaque"
17:14 Judasbricot I guess, it could be a debate. I've read http://blog.ploeh.dk/2013/05/01/rest-lesson-learned-avoid-hackable-urls/ where this guys encourages to use non-hackable urls (= opaque)
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21:00 Judasbricot A question: how a client using my REST API can know what parameter to put in its body when he request a POST on a resource ? Does it rely enterily on a out-band knowledge or  on the MIME type that can give hint about it ?
21:02 pdurbin what are the possible parameters?
21:05 Judasbricot just a string.
21:06 Judasbricot If it's possible i would like to tell some String value that he can choose and POST it on a resource :)
21:06 Judasbricot provide*
21:07 pdurbin could he do a GET to see the String values that are supported?
21:10 Judasbricot Well. Imagine a ressource "A1" that is the entry point, where client performs a GET on it, and returns some informations + a link to a ressource "A2" where he can perform a POST. I would like to know how the client can know what he has to fill in the body of its "POST A2" request
21:11 Judasbricot does the response of the "GET A1" can contains hints for filling this body ?
21:13 trygvis Judasbricot: if you want to follow REST, you shouldn't rely on any out of band info
21:14 pdurbin I have a similar need. We have a "controlled vocabulary" for "subject" (a required field) when creating a dataset via POST. Possible values for "subject" are "Chemistry", "Engineering", "Physics", etc. Not sure how best to communicate these to a client.
21:15 Judasbricot exactly :-) !
21:17 Judasbricot that's why trygvis, i guess its the MIME type that can provide this information. Because both side (server/client) agreed on it (i assume you got a 2xx response here) and is intended to self-describe the meaning of a request/response.
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21:19 pdurbin right now this is what we return: {"status":"ERROR","message":"Error parsing datasetVersion: Value 'junk' does not exist in type 'subject'"}
21:19 pdurbin would be nice to return the possible values, I guess
21:20 pdurbin any suggestions are welcome :)
21:20 Judasbricot the status should depends of the response code of the protocol (http i guess in your case). No ?
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21:23 trygvis pdurbin: usually you would include the options as a part of what the agent requested in the first place
21:23 trygvis so the agent start with GET /myresource, look at the possible operations and required parameters and does its POST
21:24 Judasbricot trygvis, the main issue is how it know these parameters ?
21:24 pdurbin trygvis: sounds like a good approach. Do you know of any APIs I could look at that work this way?
21:25 trygvis pdurbin: HTML is probably the best example that actually does so
21:25 trygvis I think also the siren stuff works in a similar fasion, but I haven't looked at it
21:25 trygvis Judasbricot: well, you always need some knowledge
21:26 trygvis like, in pdurbin's case, you know you have something called "subject", but you don't have to know it's possible values
21:27 pdurbin siren stuff?
21:27 * pdurbin googles
21:28 Judasbricot Yup trygvis. But you introduce a coupling between client/server. Imagine you rename your field "subject" to "subjects" in the server
21:28 Judasbricot your client will be broken
21:29 pdurbin Structured Interface for Representing Entities - https://github.com/kevinswiber/siren
21:31 pdurbin trygvis: I don't really see an example of communicating possible values via siren though. Communicating a controlled vocabulary I mean.
21:33 trygvis Judasbricot: you can't break stuff. ever.
21:34 trygvis so, either the media type tells you how to handle missing expected fields, or you die
21:35 pdurbin I guess this is what I want: Input field that is an enumerated value · Issue #36 · kevinswiber/siren - https://github.com/kevinswiber/siren/issues/36
21:38 Judasbricot So the correct response is: none media type handle a set of "possible values" to help client for filling their body (put/post req.) :D
21:38 trygvis HTML sure does
21:39 trygvis I'm not sure if I would actually use html, but it does have it
21:39 Judasbricot this one you mean ? application/x-www-form-urlencoded ?
21:39 trygvis no <select><option>..</option></select>
21:42 * pdurbin leaves a comment on that issue
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22:01 Judasbricot hmmm i'm thinking about a possible solution for your problem pdurbin. Using POST with empty body and create as many resource as the number of your possible value of subject. The drawback imo, is thats looks like not really RESTful
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22:02 * Judasbricot poke StatelessCat
22:04 StatelessCat hey Judasbricot
22:04 Judasbricot :-)
22:07 StatelessCat Judasbricot += "pomme"
22:07 StatelessCat apple* for english speakers
22:08 Judasbricot apricot and apple juice... eurkk :p
22:08 StatelessCat :)
22:09 StatelessCat you can DELETE /Judasbricot/apple if you want to
22:09 Judasbricot haha
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22:17 pdurbin Judasbricot: by "create as many resources" I assume you mean "return some JSON with an array of possible values"
22:19 pdurbin probably it makes more sense to start with a GET like trygvis suggests. https://github.com/kevinswiber/siren/issues/36 talks a bit about how the representation is undefined in siren currently
22:21 pdurbin Judasbricot: so we don't actually have the same problem? :)
22:26 Judasbricot pdurbin, instead of returning a structure of { link: your_uri possible_value: { value1, value2, value3 } }, you return something like this: { link: { your_uri_value1, your_uri_value2, your_uri_value3} }
22:27 Judasbricot and these uris (your_uri_value1, your_uri_value2, ...} are POST-ed with an empty body
22:37 pdurbin hmm, well "subject" is one of many field that the user is expected to send in the JSON when doing a POST. To create a dataset the server is expecting JSON that looks something like this: https://github.com/IQSS/dataverse/blob/master/scripts/search/tests/data/dataset-finch1.json
22:37 pdurbin fields*
22:38 Judasbricot ok, forgot my idea then :D
22:38 pdurbin in practice, for now, we'll probably just document what the possible values for "subject" are
22:39 Judasbricot by documenting you mean with something like YAML or WADL ?
22:40 pdurbin I'd like to use the http://swagger.io format (I think) but for now we're using .rst/sphinx: http://guides.dataverse.org/en/latest/api
22:45 StatelessCat or Hydra :)
22:48 pdurbin hmm. "Current APIs heavily rely on out-of-band information such as human-readable documentation" http://www.hydra-cg.com
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22:50 StatelessCat i'm missing something or in YAML you cannot specify a ressource as a "linked data" ?
22:51 StatelessCat like "this ressource, that you can acess on /api/user with GET, POST, PUT, DELETE; is a schema.org/Person"
22:51 StatelessCat you can do this with YAML / swagger?
22:55 pdurbin not sure
22:56 Judasbricot Hmm i was thinking about RAML (based on YAML). RAML allow to describe the structure of a response on a defined resource
22:57 Judasbricot and also the supported methods on it
22:57 Judasbricot http://raml.org/
22:59 pdurbin it's neat how with swagger you can actually execute the operations, the GETs etc. against a live server. seems like http://www.markus-lanthaler.com/hydra/console/?url=http://www.markus-lanthaler.com/hydra/api-demo/ is letting me do that too though
23:02 StatelessCat yes, this video of Markus explain very well what Hydra can do https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91wSt3fHWLE
23:03 StatelessCat but Hydra is still a Draft spec, there are still arguing about what need to be or not in Hydra
23:05 pdurbin ok
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23:26 Judasbricot interesting presentation StatelessCat :-)
23:30 StatelessCat Judasbricot: yes Markus is an awesome genius :)

| Channels | #rest index | Today | | Search | Google Search | Plain-Text | plain, newest first | summary

#rest on freenode has been logged here from May 2014 until end of July 2018 but logging has been suspended because the channel has been riddled with spam since August 2018 with no end in site. See the following blog posts about the problem:

Until the spam problem has been dealt with and logging can resume, please visit our wiki at https://trygvis.io/rest-wiki/

Thanks.