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MLMitch |
Just a general question, I am having trouble grasping how to build/design a restful website. Does anyone know of any good websites that explain it very well? I am just tired of google searches and not finding the best info out there. I figure you guys all learned it from somewhere, right? lol |
| 21:05 |
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trygvis |
it's hard to point to a single website, it's like trying to define SOA |
| 21:09 |
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saml |
MLMitch, use html? |
| 21:09 |
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trygvis |
html is a horrible hypermedia |
| 21:10 |
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saml |
what kind of website are you making? |
| 21:10 |
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saml |
and what user agents are you targeting? |
| 21:10 |
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MLMitch |
My project involves using php files, as the backend guy my responsibilites are mysql, php, and designing rest. I don't have a problem with the first 2 because they are more concrete. |
| 21:10 |
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saml |
ah you're building "api" ? |
| 21:10 |
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MLMitch |
Our hope is to have a website using angular that will be able to accompany many users |
| 21:10 |
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saml |
many use json |
| 21:11 |
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MLMitch |
ya an api and we are using json |
| 21:11 |
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saml |
angularjs is not recommended by many |
| 21:11 |
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saml |
basically you can think of each url (resource) like a file. you can GET, PUT, DELETE |
| 21:11 |
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MLMitch |
well I do tell my front end guy that, but he is my boss and wants it lol |
| 21:11 |
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trygvis |
saml: uhm, I would say it is very popular |
| 21:12 |
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saml |
popular, yes. |
| 21:12 |
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MLMitch |
I would say it is gaining a lot of popularity |
| 21:12 |
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saml |
ans just like file... what really matters is hypermedia |
| 21:13 |
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saml |
simple set of methods over hypermedia is rest |
| 21:14 |
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trygvis |
saml: but you wouldn't say that application/json is a hypermedia, would you? |
| 21:15 |
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saml |
no. |
| 21:15 |
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saml |
i think of json as container |
| 21:15 |
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saml |
like atom can be written as json or xml |
| 21:21 |
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MLMitch |
So I guess for our project since we are using angularjs, our php files are meant to be "processes" more so than "pages" wouldn't that make sense? I get most confused how to build/design/use an api and rest with angular which is essentially a single page app. |
| 21:22 |
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saml |
i don't know. i thought php file is a module? |
| 21:22 |
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MLMitch |
Or is it still good to design an api with pages even for angularjs? |
| 21:24 |
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trygvis |
I wouldn't bother with REST for a single page app, it's not worth the hassle. I would make sure the backend produced raw json that is easy to consume in whatever format the frontend want |
| 21:25 |
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trygvis |
what you want is a classic RPC thing, your PHP code is a remote end of a method call, expected to process some data or query some database |
| 21:26 |
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MLMitch |
The thing is our website is meant to be huge, it is a fantasy sports website we hope to open to the public. So I feel some sort of api/rest design is necessary. |
| 21:27 |
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MLMitch |
I just said single page app to compare to angularjs because from my understanding that is basicalyl how it is built? But as you can see my ignorance is showing now haha. |
| 21:31 |
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trygvis |
you can still use the caching mechanism you have in HTTP, even if you use RPC |
| 21:31 |
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trygvis |
just don't use POST for everything |
| 21:31 |
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trygvis |
but, using big stuff like "architecture", "design" and "REST" is just silly until you have something that is useful :) |
| 21:33 |
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trygvis |
but seriously, one of the major upsides by controlling both sides of a communication (like you do with the JS and PHP parts) is that you can change the protocol whenever you want to |
| 21:38 |
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| 21:39 |
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MLMitch |
What do you mean exactly by useful? |
| 21:43 |
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trygvis |
well, an application that is useful by consumers. so for you, a site where you can play your fantacy sports |
| 21:43 |
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| 21:46 |
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MLMitch |
Ok, I really appreciate the help both of you, just dialogue even on the subject helps grasp the idea better and presents new alternatives. So the chat did help a lot. |
| 21:46 |
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trygvis |
shibby |
| 21:59 |
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| 22:01 |
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| 22:04 |
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dreamdust |
I don't think REST is a hassle for a single page app. Your tooling sucks if it is. |
| 22:05 |
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MLMitch |
I think my real struggle is just designing an api if anything. |
| 22:06 |
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trygvis |
dreamdust: I just don't see what you will gain by the added complexity |
| 22:06 |
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dreamdust |
I'd try to find tooling that handles the REST communication for you. For example, you define your models and relationships and the REST API logic is not something you implement directly but introspected from your models |
| 22:08 |
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dreamdust |
REST reduces complexity. |
| 22:08 |
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trygvis |
at work we've made a fair amount of tooling, but it is not anywhere near RESTful |
| 22:08 |
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dreamdust |
Consistency is less complex. |
| 22:08 |
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trygvis |
REST reduces complexity if you need it |
| 22:11 |
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trygvis |
on the client side (we make a massive angularjs app) we have a single generated class to do HTTP calls for us which has a one to one mapping with our server side controller and the controllers method |
| 22:11 |
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trygvis |
Data.InvoiceController.getInvoicesForCompany(ctrl.company.id).then(..) |
| 22:12 |
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trygvis |
for us, that is totally awesome. no rest, lots of RPC and out of bounds data |
| 22:12 |
|
trygvis |
but it works like a motherfucker and we can add features super fast |
| 22:14 |
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trygvis |
but whatever floats your boat really |
| 22:15 |
|
dreamdust |
that makes sense… but you can do the same and have it RESTful. You just need the tooling to be RESTful. Invoice.get({ companyId: 123 }) just looks at a url defined in the model and GETs it. Invoice.save(…) uses the appropriate POST or PATCH, etc. |
| 22:15 |
|
dreamdust |
the tooling out there for REST sucks |
| 22:15 |
|
dreamdust |
at least outside of JS land it seems |
| 22:17 |
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dreamdust |
peopel should only have to work with their models and the tooling should handle the rest communication automagically |
| 22:17 |
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trygvis |
in Invoice.get(), you would send in URI template arguments? |
| 22:18 |
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_ollie |
dreamdust: such as JSF abstracts HTTP for you in Java… yes, that really works well… not :) |
| 22:18 |
|
trygvis |
(I'm not arguing against REST in general, just for your average SPA) |
| 22:19 |
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dreamdust |
Not familiar with JSF… but I don't see why that won't work well. I've done this at the last 3 companies I've built services for. https://github.com/mio/mio |
| 22:19 |
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dreamdust |
If you discretely model resources and relationships all the REST comm should be able to handles automatically |
| 22:30 |
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