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Topic for #rest is now #rest REpresentational State Transfer | logs: http://irclog.greptilian.com/rest/today | http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/rest-discuss | http://code.google.com/p/implementing-rest/ | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Representational_State_Transfer |
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| 19:07 |
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| 19:07 |
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wabash |
hey folks |
| 19:07 |
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wabash |
how is everyone? I have some questions about Rest and rest testing. |
| 19:07 |
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wabash |
First question about REST. PUT vs. POST. Is it a corrrect understanding to say that we should use PUT for things that are idempotent whenever we can, and POST for things that are not idempotent? |
| 19:08 |
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_ollie |
that's not a should actually, that's a must :) |
| 19:08 |
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wabash |
Right! |
| 19:08 |
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wabash |
_ollie: But, is this the correct relationship? Most people think interms of POST:create, PUT:update. Which I think is wrong. |
| 19:09 |
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_ollie |
well, that assignment is a consequence of the definition… plus, you can't map every interaction with a resource to create or put… |
| 19:09 |
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wabash |
I agree. |
| 19:09 |
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_ollie |
what about assignments, etc. |
| 19:09 |
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wabash |
So, the differentiating factor between POST and PUT is idempotency, correct? |
| 19:10 |
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_ollie |
yes… PUT has more guarantees |
| 19:10 |
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_ollie |
you can retry if you failed |
| 19:10 |
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wabash |
Is it summed up completely by idempotency? or is that only partial. |
| 19:10 |
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_ollie |
you might be able to with POST but that's not guaranteed |
| 19:11 |
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| 19:11 |
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_ollie |
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/630453/put-vs-post-in-rest |
| 19:11 |
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wabash |
_ollie: Thanks. I want to make sure I'm understanding this correctly though. does idempotency fully describe their differences? or is it missing some other aspects too |
| 19:13 |
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wabash |
_ollie: Am I missing something? |
| 19:16 |
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wabash |
I've lost you then. |
| 19:16 |
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wabash |
let me know when you are available. |
| 20:02 |
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wabash |
Ok, anyone else willing to discuss REST with me? |
| 20:05 |
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wabash |
Does anyone here use SoapUI? |
| 20:06 |
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whartung |
what do you need wabash |
| 20:07 |
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wabash |
whartung: Well, first, I'd like to ask for suggestions/recommendations for testing REST services. |
| 20:07 |
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whartung |
I'm not the person to ask that :) |
| 20:08 |
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wabash |
hahaha |
| 20:08 |
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whartung |
my testing is limited to random curl commands |
| 20:08 |
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| 20:08 |
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wabash |
whartung: Then, I'd like to make sure I'm understanding PUT vs POST. It seems to me right now that the differentiating factor is that of idempotency: PUT for idempotent, POST for non-idempotent. Makes sense, but I want to make sure I'm not missing a subtle detail. |
| 20:09 |
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whartung |
POST is kind of a catchall, the semantics around PUT are more formal |
| 20:09 |
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wabash |
tell me more |
| 20:10 |
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whartung |
PUT is like assignment. PUT basically "sets" the resource via a representation. |
| 20:11 |
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wabash |
yes |
| 20:11 |
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wabash |
But what's teh differentiating factor? |
| 20:11 |
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whartung |
POST is more wild west. |
| 20:11 |
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whartung |
basically you have GET, PUT, DELETE…and POST for "everything else" |
| 20:12 |
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whartung |
GET, PUT, DELETE are more primitves. POST can do "anything" |
| 20:13 |
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whartung |
G/P/D have implied semantics (notably for caching and proxies), POST just burns through all that. it doesn't have really any semanctics, so middlewear can't make any assumptions about POST requests |
| 20:13 |
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wabash |
whartung: So idempotency is just *one* semantic implication for PUT. correct? |
| 20:14 |
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whartung |
yes, but it's the one that middleware would consider the most. |
| 20:15 |
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wabash |
I agree. |
| 20:15 |
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wabash |
what are some of the other implied semantics? |
| 20:19 |
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whartung |
just the fact that PUT set the value, so PUT can invalidate caches and such. |
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