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| 14:09 |
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spaceone |
hmm |
| 14:10 |
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spaceone |
REST doesn't disallow server state as long as the communication is stateless. so caching of authentication details is fully valid, imho?! |
| 14:12 |
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| 14:19 |
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fumanchu |
sure. you want to be careful about how you share that cache among multiple webservers... |
| 14:21 |
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pdurbin |
spaceone: is the image tmoore found the one you were looking for? http://www.w3.org/2000/Talks/1206-xml2k-tbl/slide5-0.html |
| 14:27 |
|
spaceone |
pdurbin: no, unfortionaly not |
| 14:29 |
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spaceone |
fumanchu: so my argument "server is allowed to have state, but communication must be stateless" is valid... why doesn't people understand this? |
| 14:30 |
|
spaceone |
pdurbin: i am pretty sure that i found that image on w3.org, i searched about 4 hours for it :/ |
| 14:31 |
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fumanchu |
spaceone: because people only want to think about design and not architecture. They see statelessness as design dogma rather than a beneficial architectural constraint that promotes scalability |
| 14:31 |
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spaceone |
yes |
| 14:37 |
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fumanchu |
most of the time I can't fault that attitude, since it so often exists because they don't actually need scalability for their 100-user website, they just "need REST" because it's cool. |
| 14:38 |
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spaceone |
hmm |
| 14:39 |
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spaceone |
the whole WWW is meant to be RESTful in its original thought |
| 14:39 |
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| 14:39 |
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spaceone |
imho even every website should be restful |
| 14:40 |
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spaceone |
allowing implementation of generic browsers (which support generic login, language selection, media type selection, ...) |
| 14:41 |
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fumanchu |
as Roy keeps saying, though, "browsers are a tiny fraction of 'the Web'" |
| 14:41 |
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spaceone |
where does he say this? |
| 14:41 |
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fumanchu |
oh, anytime the browser folks want to change HTTP to fit their needs :) |
| 14:42 |
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fumanchu |
or HTML |
| 14:44 |
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| 14:44 |
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fumanchu |
the point is, study your requirements, especially the non-functional ones, pick an architecture that serves them (allowing established architectural styles to guide you if applicable), design and build your system from it |
| 14:45 |
|
fumanchu |
going in the other direction, where you let the selected architecture or style determine your requirements, is a recipe for frustration |
| 14:45 |
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fumanchu |
(or, just as bad, letting your implementation choices determine your architecture) |
| 14:45 |
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spaceone |
hm yes |
| 14:45 |
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spaceone |
but |
| 14:45 |
|
spaceone |
REST has the most advantages |
| 14:45 |
|
spaceone |
for most usage |
| 14:46 |
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fumanchu |
simply not true. you need to get out and see other apps. |
| 14:46 |
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fumanchu |
and study other styles |
| 14:47 |
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spaceone |
i compared RPC web services and compared them to REST. the REST thing was always more simple |
| 14:47 |
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fumanchu |
there are orders of magnitude more apps that benefit from the Unix pipe-and-filter arch style than web apps that benefit from REST or RPC |
| 14:48 |
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fumanchu |
(partly due to the weight of history, I'll grant you, but true nevertheless) |
| 14:49 |
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fumanchu |
pick up the Taylor book for a start |
| 14:49 |
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spaceone |
i am not able to translate the meaning of "grant me" |
| 14:49 |
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fumanchu |
"I'll grant you" ~= "I will allow this argument" |
| 14:49 |
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fumanchu |
http://www.amazon.com/Software-Architecture-Foundations-Theory-Practice/dp/0470167742 |
| 14:50 |
|
spaceone |
okay |
| 14:51 |
|
spaceone |
rest contains pipe and filter |
| 14:54 |
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fumanchu |
ha. list the architectural qualities and constraints of the pipe-and-filter style and then try to tell me that again ;) just because a diagram has boxes and arrows does not make it pipe-and-filter. |
| 14:54 |
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fumanchu |
biab |
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