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IRC log for #rest, 2014-06-26

#rest on freenode has been logged here from May 2014 until end of July 2018 but logging has been suspended because the channel has been riddled with spam since August 2018 with no end in site. See the following blog posts about the problem:

Until the spam problem has been dealt with and logging can resume, please visit our wiki at https://trygvis.io/rest-wiki/

Thanks.

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time S Nick Message
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14:09 spaceone hmm
14:10 spaceone REST doesn't disallow server state as long as the communication is stateless. so caching of authentication details is fully valid, imho?!
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14:19 fumanchu sure. you want to be careful about how you share that cache among multiple webservers...
14:21 pdurbin spaceone: is the image tmoore found the one you were looking for? http://www.w3.org/2000/Talks/1206-xml2k-tbl/slide5-0.html
14:27 spaceone pdurbin: no, unfortionaly not
14:29 spaceone fumanchu: so my argument "server is allowed to have state, but communication must be stateless" is valid... why doesn't people understand this?
14:30 spaceone pdurbin: i am pretty sure that i found that image on w3.org, i searched about 4 hours for it :/
14:31 fumanchu spaceone: because people only want to think about design and not architecture. They see statelessness as design dogma rather than a beneficial architectural constraint that promotes scalability
14:31 spaceone yes
14:37 fumanchu most of the time I can't fault that attitude, since it so often exists because they don't actually need scalability for their 100-user website, they just "need REST" because it's cool.
14:38 spaceone hmm
14:39 spaceone the whole WWW is meant to be RESTful in its original thought
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14:39 spaceone imho even every website should be restful
14:40 spaceone allowing implementation of generic browsers (which support generic login, language selection, media type selection, ...)
14:41 fumanchu as Roy keeps saying, though, "browsers are a tiny fraction of 'the Web'"
14:41 spaceone where does he say this?
14:41 fumanchu oh, anytime the browser folks want to change HTTP to fit their needs :)
14:42 fumanchu or HTML
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14:44 fumanchu the point is, study your requirements, especially the non-functional ones, pick an architecture that serves them (allowing established architectural styles to guide you if applicable), design and build your system from it
14:45 fumanchu going in the other direction, where you let the selected architecture or style determine your requirements, is a recipe for frustration
14:45 fumanchu (or, just as bad, letting your implementation choices determine your architecture)
14:45 spaceone hm yes
14:45 spaceone but
14:45 spaceone REST has the most advantages
14:45 spaceone for most usage
14:46 fumanchu simply not true. you need to get out and see other apps.
14:46 fumanchu and study other styles
14:47 spaceone i compared RPC web services and compared them to REST. the REST thing was always more simple
14:47 fumanchu there are orders of magnitude more apps that benefit from the Unix pipe-and-filter arch style than web apps that benefit from REST or RPC
14:48 fumanchu (partly due to the weight of history, I'll grant you, but true nevertheless)
14:49 fumanchu pick up the Taylor book for a start
14:49 spaceone i am not able to translate the meaning of  "grant me"
14:49 fumanchu "I'll grant you" ~= "I will allow this argument"
14:49 fumanchu http://www.amazon.com/Software-Architecture-Foundations-Theory-Practice/dp/0470167742
14:50 spaceone okay
14:51 spaceone rest contains pipe and filter
14:54 fumanchu ha. list the architectural qualities and constraints of the pipe-and-filter style and then try to tell me that again ;) just because a diagram has boxes and arrows does not make it pipe-and-filter.
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| Channels | #rest index | Today | | Search | Google Search | Plain-Text | plain, newest first | summary

#rest on freenode has been logged here from May 2014 until end of July 2018 but logging has been suspended because the channel has been riddled with spam since August 2018 with no end in site. See the following blog posts about the problem:

Until the spam problem has been dealt with and logging can resume, please visit our wiki at https://trygvis.io/rest-wiki/

Thanks.