| Time |
S |
Nick |
Message |
| 00:14 |
|
pdurbin |
Voyage: I'm pretty sure you can mix and match |
| 00:17 |
|
Voyage |
k |
| 00:17 |
|
Voyage |
whats recomended. which one goes on top' |
| 00:38 |
|
pdurbin |
Voyage: maybe look at all the ingredients for TomEE: http://tomee.apache.org/apache-tomee.html |
| 00:41 |
|
pdurbin |
Voyage: or maybe, if you really liked, say, Spring Security, you could use that, even though it's not part of Java EE (I don't think). I'm not sure how much of Spring you need to bring in to use it |
| 00:42 |
|
pdurbin |
it's probably easier to answer what's on the bottom, such as Servlet |
| 00:55 |
|
|
NationalCoder joined ##javaee |
| 00:59 |
|
Voyage |
pdurbin, thanks |
| 01:07 |
|
|
NationalCoder joined ##javaee |
| 01:08 |
|
sajjadg |
EJB and spring? I don't think so! JPA, spring security, JAX-RS and lots of other parts of those frameworks can work separately in any stack. but mixing two technology that some kind overwrite each other! like JPA and Hibernate both at the same time, seems impossible. |
| 01:09 |
|
sajjadg |
Voyage, pdurbin ^ |
| 01:12 |
|
Voyage |
sajjadg, sorry, I understood that hibernate factory cant work with JPA entity Manager but what did you meant by "EJB and Psring" and rest |
| 01:13 |
|
sajjadg |
Voyage: I say we can't use two implementation of a JSR at the same time. |
| 01:14 |
|
Voyage |
Can I use spring on the top of a JavaEE application that has all features e.g EJBs, JPA, or viceversa as make JavaEE on top of spring ? |
| 01:14 |
|
Voyage |
and if so, which approach is better |
| 01:14 |
|
sajjadg |
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Java_Community_Process |
| 01:14 |
|
Voyage |
e.g spring based app that uses EJBs unerneed by using javaee |
| 01:14 |
|
Voyage |
possible? |
| 01:15 |
|
sajjadg |
Voyage: why do you want to do that? |
| 01:15 |
|
Voyage |
well, just RNDing |
| 01:16 |
|
sajjadg |
Voyage: spring is a full Java EE stack and it's nothing but some building blocks which most of them are implementation of JSRs |
| 01:18 |
|
Voyage |
I though when you make web apps, you use JEE. no matter what is used. mare servlets, spring, stuts or any other framework |
| 01:18 |
|
sajjadg |
spring has lots of feature but you should see if you need them or not. you can mix the building blocks to build your own stack. but having two things that overwrite each other is not possible or not logical! |
| 01:18 |
|
Voyage |
hm |
| 01:19 |
|
Voyage |
was i correct about the last line? |
| 01:19 |
|
sajjadg |
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Java_ee |
| 01:20 |
|
sajjadg |
in that ^ wiki link, list of all java EE api is available. each of them have multiple implementation. and by using them you are using Java EE |
| 01:22 |
|
sajjadg |
spring implements all of them. and you have other Java EE implementations like glassfish, redhat jboss (wildfly) etc. they are all full Java EE stack. |
| 01:22 |
|
sajjadg |
you can just use small part of the full stack |
| 01:22 |
|
sajjadg |
most people don't need all of those features |
| 01:23 |
|
sajjadg |
see what's good for your project |
| 01:23 |
|
sajjadg |
and have fun ;) |
| 01:23 |
|
sajjadg |
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4f2Zky_YyyQ |
| 01:23 |
|
Voyage |
thx |
| 01:23 |
|
sajjadg |
and remember that world is going SaaS way ;) |
| 01:24 |
|
Voyage |
spring dont implement EJBs |
| 01:24 |
|
sajjadg |
so go with JAX-RS (backend) + AngularJS (frontend) <--REST |
| 01:24 |
|
Voyage |
hm |
| 01:25 |
|
Voyage |
sajjadg, what technologies can be my options if I want to make a stackoverflow.com replica for example. I have chosen hibernate with JPA implimentation and postgresql as a start |
| 01:27 |
|
sajjadg |
Voyage: very good. PG is way better than mysql. and between hibernate and eclipselink, benchmark say that eclipselink has better performance with PG. and I fing eclipselink to be nicer to work with. |
| 01:27 |
|
Voyage |
sajjadg, and I have heard that some people dont just use spring because old code might be very obsolete as compared to JEE old code. + lots of configuration of spring |
| 01:27 |
|
sajjadg |
Voyage: that's somehow true. but both of them work for a long, long, long, time. so don't be afraid of that. |
| 01:28 |
|
Voyage |
sajjadg, you have worked with both JEE and spring? |
| 01:29 |
|
sajjadg |
Voyage: kinda yeah. |
| 01:29 |
|
sajjadg |
Voyage: http://www.jpab.org/PostgreSQL.html |
| 01:29 |
|
sajjadg |
that ^ site is cool. I like it :-) |
| 01:31 |
|
Voyage |
sajjadg, ok. what about page redirection in JEE. like in struts we retrn success/failure. in spring we return the /view/jspName and avoid request.getDispatcher etc . 2. in spring security, it manages sessions for use once the user is logged in. no session.setAttribut (loggedin, true) . What does JEE give us? |
| 01:32 |
|
sajjadg |
Voyage: http://www.jpab.org/All/All/All.html the only situation that hibernate is better than eclipselink is with mysql :-) in all other test eclipselink is better |
| 01:32 |
|
Voyage |
jm |
| 01:32 |
|
Voyage |
hm |
| 01:34 |
|
sajjadg |
Voyage: I haven't worked with jsp and spring security. I use angularJS which has route. and apache shiro which is too easy and fun to work with. so much easier than spring security and JAAS |
| 01:35 |
|
sajjadg |
personally I don't like spring! you don't get + comments about spring from me ;) |
| 01:37 |
|
Voyage |
sajjadg, ok, how to do you 1. redirect to .jsp / view pages and 2. manage user sessions in PURE JEE? |
| 01:38 |
|
sajjadg |
don't know |
| 01:38 |
|
Voyage |
k |
| 01:38 |
|
Voyage |
so what technologies have you used for web services? |
| 01:41 |
|
sajjadg |
JAX-RS |
| 01:42 |
|
sajjadg |
for the last project I have to create some simple read only (GET) services that read from XML files at startup! so it was so easy. |
| 01:42 |
|
Voyage |
sajjadg, what did you used with JaxRS? any other framework |
| 01:43 |
|
sajjadg |
but eclipselink comes after sometimes. and CDI after that and maybe apache shiro |
| 01:43 |
|
Voyage |
no view technology? |
| 01:43 |
|
Voyage |
jsp? |
| 01:43 |
|
sajjadg |
Voyage: jersey is the reference impl. but there's resteasy and others too |
| 01:44 |
|
Voyage |
I have heard praise for jersey though |
| 01:44 |
|
Voyage |
so, no jsps? |
| 01:45 |
|
sajjadg |
Voyage: think SaaS brother ;) the views are everywhere :) I'm working on AngularJS for web view and after that I will go and create an android app as a view too |
| 01:45 |
|
Voyage |
sajjadg, ya. software as service with REST? |
| 01:45 |
|
Voyage |
but I am making a website. |
| 01:46 |
|
sajjadg |
Voyage: of course. SOA -> SaaS -> REST |
| 01:46 |
|
sajjadg |
I'm making a website too. that's the beauty of it. you create a service and use it everywhere. website, mobile, etc. |
| 01:47 |
|
Voyage |
sajjadg, idea: why not just make ONE view. that is website and use embedded object browser for android/IOS/blackberry to show the same page. |
| 01:47 |
|
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| 01:48 |
|
sajjadg |
Voyage: very good question brother. that's what I'm hardly looking for an answer to. and I'm watching this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4f2Zky_YyyQ |
| 01:48 |
|
Voyage |
sajjadg, any thoughts? as I am thinking of it too, for my app |
| 01:48 |
|
Voyage |
sajjadg, it is possible |
| 01:48 |
|
sajjadg |
there's a debate between android and chrome team in google i/o 2013 |
| 01:49 |
|
sajjadg |
html5 is awesome. but it has its downsides. but embedding web inside native app is the way to do it. |
| 01:49 |
|
Voyage |
sajjadg, well you would load your webpage (which includes your javascript scripts) with a simple WebViewClient and add a JavaScriptInterface to it, which contains all the methods you want to expose to your JavaScript code |
| 01:50 |
|
sajjadg |
Voyage: if you don't need any extra feature for your website, (most people don't) then you should go for html5 |
| 01:50 |
|
Voyage |
I was also thinking: why make 5 UIs for all mobile platforms. why not just embed one site in all? |
| 01:51 |
|
Voyage |
sajjadg, jQuery , css3 and html 5 can make you embedded mobile app , better that any mobile app if you are up to it |
| 01:51 |
|
Voyage |
thats what i think. |
| 01:51 |
|
sajjadg |
Voyage: all of them have browsers right? so just make a responsive web app :-) |
| 01:51 |
|
Voyage |
and it would be same too |
| 01:51 |
|
Voyage |
look at phonegap.com too |
| 01:52 |
|
sajjadg |
Voyage: lots of solutions out there. even JavaFx is an option! |
| 01:53 |
|
Voyage |
wait |
| 01:53 |
|
sajjadg |
but HTML5 is very promising |
| 01:53 |
|
Voyage |
JavaFX? |
| 01:53 |
|
Voyage |
thats a PC running thing |
| 01:53 |
|
Voyage |
it cant run on mobiles |
| 01:53 |
|
Voyage |
sajjadg, html5 or xhtml 1 transitional |
| 01:54 |
|
Voyage |
sajjadg, I would go with embedded browser app and just use natives for alerts and notifications on mobiles |
| 01:55 |
|
|
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| 01:55 |
|
Voyage |
sajjadg, what do you think? |
| 01:55 |
|
NationalCoder |
Test |
| 01:56 |
|
Voyage |
NationalCoder, use ##javaee-testing |
| 01:57 |
|
Voyage |
sajjadg, need to go |
| 01:58 |
|
NationalCoder |
Oh I was just testing to see what nickname was being used for this connection. Sorry Voyage. |
| 01:58 |
|
Voyage |
np |
| 02:04 |
|
sajjadg |
NationalCoder: cool name ;) |
| 02:05 |
|
NationalCoder |
Thanks, sajjadg |
| 04:56 |
|
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| 05:46 |
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kotten_ joined ##javaee |
| 06:39 |
|
Guest15018 |
my name is not converted to cem :( |
| 06:58 |
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| 07:50 |
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| 08:57 |
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| 09:08 |
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| 09:48 |
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| 09:51 |
|
AlexCzar |
hi! I have two application, one is spring-mvc + freemarker, second is spring-mvc based JSON API application, I want to have user authenticated in both apps when he authenticates against the first one. Is there an easy way to to this with spring-security? |
| 09:52 |
|
AlexCzar |
s/way to to/way to do/ |
| 10:00 |
|
Guest15018 |
i'm learning spring :/ sorry |
| 10:31 |
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| 10:44 |
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| 10:47 |
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| 11:08 |
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| 11:10 |
|
sajjadg |
pdurbin: nice talk about the end of internet. |
| 11:15 |
|
sajjadg |
centralized architecture is evil. distributed networking is awesome. we should pay the price and fight for that |
| 11:24 |
|
Guest15018 |
lol sajjadg |
| 11:25 |
|
Guest15018 |
whats the big deal |
| 11:25 |
|
sajjadg |
pdurbin: can you share the link here? |
| 11:27 |
|
Guest15018 |
ppl use to belive earth was flat later some xyz person discovered and said it was round so its no big deal :/ |
| 11:28 |
|
Guest15018 |
later ppl started get into arguments :/ |
| 13:51 |
|
pdurbin |
AlexCzar: how similar is this to your situation? http://stackoverflow.com/questions/21321825/shared-authentication-for-website-and-restful-api |
| 13:53 |
|
AlexCzar |
pdurbin, it is very similar |
| 13:54 |
|
AlexCzar |
the only viable solution would be the 'token' based one |
| 13:55 |
|
AlexCzar |
that is the third option mentioned by Thor84no |
| 13:57 |
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| 13:57 |
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| 13:58 |
|
AlexCzar |
Although I don't quite grasp it. I need the following flow: client is on login page (app1) → client authenticates via login/password (or openid, or facebook, etc). → app1 returns a web page which contains JS client for app2, all calls to app2 have to be authenticated against the user logged in to app1. |
| 14:00 |
|
AlexCzar |
so, let's say I authenticated client against app1, do I return token via the model rendered by freemarker (in some hidden input maybe) on each page? |
| 14:01 |
|
AlexCzar |
Thor84no writes "Create an authentication system on the REST API that authenticates a request with a username/password authorization and returns a token that is valid for a limited time." which is somewhat opposite of what I want to do. |
| 14:03 |
|
AlexCzar |
Also this approach creates problems with logout and expiration, if the client used 'remember-me' option at app1, I won't expire his session, so I can't use short-lived token for app2 |
| 14:04 |
|
AlexCzar |
and long-lived token will introduce security problems, won't it? |
| 14:17 |
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| 14:49 |
|
pdurbin |
AlexCzar: do you want app1 and app2 to both have the same security mechanism (e.g. username/password)? or do you want app2 to only use tokens or something? |
| 14:50 |
|
AlexCzar |
pdurbin, app2 should use token within authorization header, I think, because user/password and other mechanisms are handled via app1. |
| 14:51 |
|
AlexCzar |
I've even started to read about openid and oauth, but I do not have much time left to provide a working prototyped |
| 14:51 |
|
AlexCzar |
s/s$// |
| 14:52 |
|
pdurbin |
I'm not sure I'd waste my time with openid... oauth seems way more popular |
| 14:52 |
|
AlexCzar |
pdurbin, there's also openid connect which is openid 2.0 nicely integrated with oauth 2.0 |
| 14:52 |
|
AlexCzar |
it is not final yet, though |
| 14:54 |
|
pdurbin |
ah, ok |
| 14:54 |
|
pdurbin |
my users want shibboleth/saml, which has been difficult for me to implement (some progress, still a long way to go) |
| 14:55 |
|
AlexCzar |
another problem which is in the mix, I can't keep session in memory (HttpSession), spring provides some kind of 'stateless' authentication, but I haven't dived in yet |
| 14:56 |
|
AlexCzar |
this is because system architecture relies on horizontal scaling by adding more servers with app1 and more servers with app2 whenever throughput becomes an issue, so I either need something stateless or shared state, latter being a nightmare |
| 15:03 |
|
pdurbin |
AlexCzar: you might try asking in #rest as well. whartung and I hang out there |
| 15:04 |
|
pdurbin |
maybe there should be a ##sso channel |
| 15:05 |
|
AlexCzar |
pdurbin, the rest part is actually the easy one, there is an authorization header and spring can authenticate against it |
| 15:06 |
|
AlexCzar |
token handling is the tricky part |
| 15:06 |
|
pdurbin |
gotcha |
| 15:08 |
|
pdurbin |
shibboleth has a way of operating with mostly headers. it seemed less secure to me somehow or something so I haven't given it a hard look. and it requires running a shibboleth daemon on the side and proxying my app through it. I should probably look at this some more |
| 15:09 |
|
pdurbin |
"Alternatively, data can be passed via HTTP request headers (by means of using ShibUseHeaders On) but this is considered less secure" -- https://wiki.shibboleth.net/confluence/display/SHIB2/NativeSPJavaInstall |
| 15:10 |
|
pdurbin |
honestly, at this point, I just want something that works... that I can demo at least |
| 15:10 |
|
pdurbin |
AlexCzar: when is your prototype due? |
| 15:10 |
|
pdurbin |
balo: you're into all this auth stuff. openam and whatnot |
| 15:11 |
|
AlexCzar |
pdurbin, tomorrow, maybe I can delay until tuesday |
| 15:11 |
|
pdurbin |
AlexCzar: good luck. I wish I could help more but I'm still trying to figure it out myself :/ |
| 15:11 |
|
AlexCzar |
pdurbin, thanks :) good luck to you, too |
| 15:12 |
|
pdurbin |
AlexCzar: thanks. I'm currently taking a break from shibboleth/saml but it's sure to become a priority again within a few months |
| 15:14 |
|
AlexCzar |
pdurbin, months <3 my employer somehow thinks that a 3man team can create a startup within couple of months and from the beginning it will be state of the art platform with infinite horizontal scaling, open api and whatnot |
| 15:14 |
|
* balo |
is here |
| 15:39 |
|
pdurbin |
AlexCzar: it is ever thus :) |
| 15:42 |
|
pdurbin |
AlexCzar: I'm reminded of my friend who founded a startup and keeps saying, "I don't understand why these programmers are so slow" :) |
| 15:55 |
|
AlexCzar |
:) |
| 15:58 |
|
AlexCzar |
I've just encountered this bit: http://docs.spring.io/spring-security/site/docs/3.2.0.RELEASE/reference/htmlsingle/#csrf-login |
| 15:58 |
|
AlexCzar |
basically it says - no sessions = no csrf protection |
| 15:59 |
|
AlexCzar |
Quote: "Practically speaking, the CSRF token is quite small in size and should have a negligible impact on our architecture." |
| 15:59 |
|
AlexCzar |
Well nobody minds a small token, but this introduces shared/sticky sessions (read: pain) |
| 16:01 |
|
AlexCzar |
sounds like I'll have to implement session sharing :( one of the "easier" methods I've found is migrate from tomcat to jetty and add jetty-pluggable-session-manager which supports mongodb out of the box for storing sessions and also has support for other mechanisms, like memcached and redis |
| 16:01 |
|
AlexCzar |
which is a nice bonus for the future |
| 16:12 |
|
pdurbin |
AlexCzar: do you have something in front on tomcat, such as apache httpd? |
| 16:13 |
|
AlexCzar |
yes, nginx |
| 16:14 |
|
pdurbin |
ok. our users hit glassfish directly. maybe we should change that |
| 16:14 |
|
pdurbin |
well, technically there's a load balancer. but I mean that glassfish runs on ports 80 and 443 |
| 16:15 |
|
AlexCzar |
pdurbin, we use nginx as load balancer and caching reverse-proxy |
| 16:15 |
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| 16:15 |
|
AlexCzar |
with future plans to add dns round-robin and have several nginx-based balancers |
| 16:16 |
|
AlexCzar |
although nginx is a bit arbitrary, maybe in the future we'll move to some alternative, that depends on how the system will behave during betatesting |
| 16:18 |
|
pdurbin |
we used to use a Coyote Point load balancer, which I liked a lot. I don't know much about the current solution but I'm pretty sure it's hardware and it seems to work fine. |
| 16:19 |
|
AlexCzar |
pdurbin, we on the other hand are deploying to the cloud (currently AWS) so hardware is not an option. |
| 16:19 |
|
pdurbin |
balo: you're here but do you have any tips for AlexCzar? :) |
| 16:20 |
|
AlexCzar |
:) |
| 16:20 |
|
pdurbin |
AlexCzar: ah sure. well, AWS has a ton of features. just ask semiosis |
| 16:20 |
|
AlexCzar |
pdurbin, our sysadmin is dealing with that part, fortunately :D |
| 16:21 |
|
pdurbin |
thank god for sysadmins :) |
| 16:21 |
|
AlexCzar |
yep :) |
| 16:21 |
|
pdurbin |
I'm starting to introduce Solr into our mix and I have no idea how to scale it... |
| 16:21 |
|
pdurbin |
works fine as a single instance on my laptop :) |
| 16:22 |
|
balo |
i'm not familiar with spring :/ |
| 16:22 |
|
pdurbin |
well, except when I try to index a ton of data at once :( |
| 16:22 |
|
balo |
but if you have questions about shibboleth or openam or sso basically maybe i can answer. but not sure ofc :P |
| 16:23 |
|
pdurbin |
balo: should we start a channel called ##sso or something? |
| 16:23 |
|
AlexCzar |
balo, thanks, good to know :) |
| 16:24 |
|
AlexCzar |
pdurbin, solr is on our todo-list as well :) there is still couple of months until it becomes my headache :) |
| 16:24 |
|
balo |
pdurbin: I'm not sure it's necessary. we can discuss the general things here or maybe in #openam. or #shibboleth (if it exists:) |
| 16:25 |
|
pdurbin |
balo: it's ##shibboleth with 2 ## (I started it) but I'm the only one there most days: http://shibboleth.net/pipermail/users/2013-February/008097.html |
| 16:25 |
|
balo |
i say we should contain informations less fragmented |
| 16:25 |
|
pdurbin |
balo: I like "big tents" like all of java ee |
| 16:25 |
|
pdurbin |
##java is a little too big for me (usually) though ;) |
| 16:26 |
|
AlexCzar |
java is too noisy, and ron is there :D |
| 16:27 |
|
balo |
i don't like those general channels. too much things asked before it googled properly |
| 16:27 |
|
* AlexCzar |
looks to the right, where the participants list is and calms down when ron is nowhere to be seen |
| 16:28 |
|
balo |
and the other kind of questions: "can i have a question?" |
| 16:28 |
|
balo |
:D |
| 16:29 |
|
pdurbin |
to each his own :) |
| 16:29 |
|
AlexCzar |
yes and when you ask something non-standard about standard things because of all those people who doesn't like to google, you're also sent to google, which was actually checked by you couple of hundreds of times |
| 16:31 |
|
pdurbin |
AlexCzar: I haven't been great about taking Solr notes ( http://wiki.greptilian.com/solr and https://github.com/dvn/solrpoc ) but feel free to ping me when you get started |
| 16:32 |
|
pdurbin |
balo: I'm fine with discussing general sso things here. I'm not sure I'm going with openam yet |
| 16:33 |
|
AlexCzar |
pdurbin, thanks, great! |
| 16:33 |
|
pdurbin |
AlexCzar: I'll leave it to you to teach me about zookeeper :) |
| 16:33 |
|
AlexCzar |
pdurbin, :) how do you know I'm using it? some previous conversation? :) |
| 16:34 |
|
pdurbin |
AlexCzar: nope |
| 16:34 |
|
pdurbin |
solr or zookeeper? |
| 16:34 |
|
AlexCzar |
zookeeper |
| 16:34 |
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pdurbin |
no idea |
| 16:36 |
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pdurbin |
AlexCzar: ron's appearances here seem to have been infrequent: http://irclog.greptilian.com/search.pl?channel=javaee&nick=ron |
| 16:40 |
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AlexCzar |
pdurbin, actually for now I only have one zookeeper instance, which is very easy to have, just unpack, copy default config, remove almost everything from it and launch :) |
| 16:40 |
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pdurbin |
AlexCzar: but you aren't using it for solr |
| 16:40 |
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AlexCzar |
no, I use it for snowflake servers |
| 16:40 |
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AlexCzar |
that is Twitter Snowflake |
| 16:40 |
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pdurbin |
javaeebot: lucky twitter snowflake |
| 16:40 |
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javaeebot |
pdurbin: https://github.com/twitter/snowflake/ |
| 16:41 |
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pdurbin |
"Snowflake is a network service for generating unique ID numbers at high scale with some simple guarantees" |
| 16:41 |
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pdurbin |
AlexCzar: you're working at high scale? internet scale, I assume |
| 16:41 |
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AlexCzar |
Yes, that is the plan |
| 16:42 |
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pdurbin |
I just love all this open source stuff from twitter and netflix |
| 16:42 |
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AlexCzar |
Can't agree more :) I also use finagle |
| 16:43 |
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AlexCzar |
raw thrift is too raw :) |
| 16:44 |
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AlexCzar |
Although there is one problem with twitter's stuff - most of it is written in scala and almost no documentation has java in mind |
| 16:44 |
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AlexCzar |
Don't get me wrong, I'm very much interested in scala, but I just do not have any productive time left to really learn it |
| 16:45 |
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| 16:45 |
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pdurbin |
AlexCzar: sounds like you need to go to Twitter's Scala School - http://twitter.github.io/scala_school/ ;) |
| 16:45 |
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AlexCzar |
One cannot grasp complex concepts after 12 hours of creative work (e.g. programming) |
| 16:46 |
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AlexCzar |
and that is my case, these days I work 12/24 7 days a week :) |
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| 16:47 |
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pdurbin |
yeah, my kids wouldn't like that |
| 16:53 |
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AlexCzar |
pdurbin, kids are awesome :) |
| 16:56 |
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pdurbin |
AlexCzar: I took mine skiing yesterday. My four year old: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0jAz5HXH6Bo |
| 16:57 |
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AlexCzar |
pdurbin, cute :) |
| 16:58 |
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AlexCzar |
her skiing is better than mine :D (I've never tried) |
| 16:58 |
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AlexCzar |
where was it taken? |
| 17:10 |
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| 17:15 |
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pdurbin |
AlexCzar: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Wachusett |
| 17:15 |
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AlexCzar |
beautiful |
| 17:25 |
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AlexCzar |
pdurbin, I'm starting to be jealous (in a good way) of people with kids, guess that's a growing-up thing :D |
| 17:27 |
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pdurbin |
"kids are like 49% enormous pain in the ass and 51% the most sublime joy you've ever felt" -- https://twitter.com/codinghorror/status/22416656017915904 |
| 17:27 |
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pdurbin |
:) |
| 17:29 |
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AlexCzar |
pdurbin, yep, I know that but the 51% of the time is actually 99% of the volume :) If you catch what I mean :) |
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pdurbin |
:) |
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