| Time |
S |
Nick |
Message |
| 00:02 |
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Naros joined ##javaee |
| 00:03 |
|
sfisque |
we're plumbers |
| 00:03 |
|
sfisque |
exchange sockets, pipes and streams for copper and pvc tubing |
| 00:04 |
|
whartung |
like I said… :) |
| 00:04 |
|
sfisque |
>.< |
| 00:04 |
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| 00:05 |
|
semiosis |
we're pilots, just exchange keyboard for a yoke, the airplane for a computer, .... yeah i dont think so :) |
| 02:22 |
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| 05:55 |
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firebird1 |
how to get data in controller of a UIcomponent |
| 05:57 |
|
sfisque |
jsf? |
| 05:57 |
|
firebird1 |
yes |
| 05:57 |
|
firebird1 |
using primefaces |
| 05:58 |
|
sfisque |
in the controller, load the desired data, and either set it directly (if it supports that) or build a "model" that the UIComponent understands (like PrimeFacesLazyDataModel) |
| 05:59 |
|
sfisque |
what kind of Component? |
| 06:31 |
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| 06:37 |
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theDoctor_ joined ##javaee |
| 06:40 |
|
firebird1 |
how to access uicomponent |
| 06:40 |
|
firebird1 |
i have 2 dates |
| 06:40 |
|
firebird1 |
date1 and date2 |
| 06:40 |
|
firebird1 |
on selecting date2 |
| 06:41 |
|
firebird1 |
need to acccess date1 data using UIComponent how ? |
| 06:52 |
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| 08:19 |
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fabioportieri joined ##javaee |
| 08:31 |
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fabioportieri |
o/ |
| 09:17 |
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| 10:06 |
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| 10:21 |
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| 11:47 |
|
firebird1 |
how to change colspan dynamically ? |
| 11:47 |
|
firebird1 |
in jsf |
| 12:22 |
|
TxRx127 |
hum put a variable in your colspan property |
| 12:22 |
|
TxRx127 |
But it's not clean |
| 12:23 |
|
TxRx127 |
you can create a tag in your taglib |
| 12:23 |
|
TxRx127 |
or dynamicly create your <table> |
| 12:23 |
|
pdurbin |
why isn't that clean? |
| 12:25 |
|
TxRx127 |
beacause you must try to not put so many code in your View |
| 12:26 |
|
TxRx127 |
fool around taglib for you jsf |
| 12:44 |
|
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| 12:59 |
|
pdurbin |
this seems to be a decent introduction: http://www.mkyong.com/jsf2/custom-tags-in-jsf-2-0/ |
| 13:02 |
|
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| 13:02 |
|
sajjadg |
pdurbin: do you use JSF? There's lots of MVC frameworks out there and those are promising. Backbone.js, AngularJS, ember, etc. |
| 13:02 |
|
pdurbin |
yeah, JSF with Primefaces |
| 13:03 |
|
sajjadg |
JPA, CDI, JSF? |
| 13:04 |
|
sajjadg |
pdurbin: do use DAOs or not? |
| 13:04 |
|
sajjadg |
some say JPA entities are enough |
| 13:08 |
|
pdurbin |
I don't think we use DAOs or a least we never talk about them. We use JPA. |
| 13:08 |
|
pdurbin |
(and CDI) |
| 13:09 |
|
pdurbin |
sajjadg: I did have a quick play with Angular by following this video: https://blogs.oracle.com/geertjan/entry/angularjs_meets_java_ee_7 |
| 13:09 |
|
sajjadg |
how was it? did have fun with it? |
| 13:10 |
|
pdurbin |
seems nice |
| 13:10 |
|
sajjadg |
people say SOA, SaaS is the future of Software |
| 13:11 |
|
sajjadg |
and for SaaS REST is somehow required. |
| 13:11 |
|
pdurbin |
I guess I get frustrated with JSF sometimes... Off and on I think "maybe I can code this up in angular at least as a proof of concept so I can show my team what I'm trying to do" ... if that makes sense |
| 13:11 |
|
sajjadg |
and when you have rest it's good to have HTML5 on the other side |
| 13:11 |
|
pdurbin |
probably I should just continue learning JSF better :) |
| 13:11 |
|
pdurbin |
but at least Angular is a transferable skill |
| 13:12 |
|
sajjadg |
I like the separation they provide to the project. you can have a AngularJS team that don't know about any backend tech and that's OK |
| 13:12 |
|
pdurbin |
right. I more comfortable being on the "provide the REST API" team |
| 13:12 |
|
pdurbin |
not so much the front end stuff |
| 13:13 |
|
pdurbin |
but I will say that primefaces is pretty slick... can express a lot of stuff in a nice way |
| 13:13 |
|
sajjadg |
but if you can't divide fontend and backend so that they can work separatly you can't be a back only guy ;) |
| 13:13 |
|
pdurbin |
yeah |
| 13:14 |
|
sajjadg |
in the last project we used primefaces for JSF and it's the best in JSF world |
| 13:14 |
|
pdurbin |
well, for stuff I can about in the GUI, I'm writing API calls. To make sure it's possible |
| 13:14 |
|
sajjadg |
but I see a brighter future for JS frameworks |
| 13:14 |
|
pdurbin |
care* about |
| 13:14 |
|
pdurbin |
oh sure. ember.js seems interesting too |
| 13:15 |
|
sajjadg |
pdurbin: http://todomvc.com/ check this out ;) |
| 13:15 |
|
pdurbin |
oh yes, semiosis linked to it. very nice |
| 13:16 |
|
sajjadg |
yeah. it's very nice. |
| 14:07 |
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| 14:07 |
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Naros left ##javaee |
| 14:42 |
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fabioportieri joined ##javaee |
| 14:48 |
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| 15:12 |
|
pdurbin |
huh. restarting glassfish doesn't help. maybe I'm really doing something wrong this time: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/16056881/null-pointer-exception-while-ejb-injection/20406588#20406588 |
| 15:18 |
|
sajjadg |
wildfly vs glassfigh! that's the choice if you want EJB. oracle is evil. I don't like it. I wished IBM bought Sun instead. |
| 15:25 |
|
balo |
sajjadg: and he sell it to lenovo? :D okay, I know they selled only just the hardware stuff but... |
| 15:27 |
|
balo |
i don't like oracle either just i think it wouldn't have made any difference |
| 15:31 |
|
TxRx127 |
how do you inject your EJB's ? |
| 15:31 |
|
sajjadg |
balo: The future of Java is gloomy! |
| 15:32 |
|
TxRx127 |
@ManagedBean |
| 15:32 |
|
TxRx127 |
@ViewScoped |
| 15:32 |
|
TxRx127 |
//some code |
| 15:32 |
|
TxRx127 |
@EJB |
| 15:32 |
|
TxRx127 |
private MyEJB myEJB; |
| 15:32 |
|
TxRx127 |
Like that ? |
| 15:32 |
|
TxRx127 |
Java is on good road i think if you look at the roadmap |
| 15:33 |
|
TxRx127 |
(sorry for my english) |
| 15:34 |
|
pdurbin |
TxRx127: I use @EJB MyServiceBean myServiceBean; |
| 15:35 |
|
pdurbin |
TxRx127: but then I go to call myServiceBean.doSomething() and myServiceBean is null. very frustrating |
| 15:35 |
|
TxRx127 |
Precise before your class @ManagedBean @TheScopeYouNeed |
| 15:35 |
|
TxRx127 |
and |
| 15:35 |
|
TxRx127 |
put this |
| 15:36 |
|
TxRx127 |
<managed-bean> |
| 15:36 |
|
TxRx127 |
<managed-bean-name>name</managed-bean-name> |
| 15:36 |
|
TxRx127 |
<managed-bean-class>ejb.nameEjb</managed-bean-class> |
| 15:36 |
|
TxRx127 |
<managed-bean-scope>Yourscope</managed-bean-scope> |
| 15:36 |
|
TxRx127 |
</managed-bean> |
| 15:36 |
|
TxRx127 |
in your faces config |
| 15:36 |
|
TxRx127 |
.xml |
| 15:36 |
|
pdurbin |
all that XML for one bean?! |
| 15:37 |
|
TxRx127 |
Yes that the rule ! |
| 15:37 |
|
balo |
i don't use xml-s for ejbs... |
| 15:38 |
|
TxRx127 |
on glassfish? |
| 15:38 |
|
balo |
niether on gf3 nor on jboss |
| 15:38 |
|
TxRx127 |
It's a proper approach |
| 15:39 |
|
TxRx127 |
(and put @Stateless in you ejb) |
| 15:39 |
|
TxRx127 |
(before class) |
| 15:40 |
|
TxRx127 |
i agree with you about the xml, it's an option if we uses @annotations in code |
| 15:40 |
|
TxRx127 |
or an alternate |
| 15:40 |
|
TxRx127 |
alternative* |
| 15:41 |
|
pdurbin |
right. the xml should always work. annotations are for convenience (less boilerplate) |
| 15:42 |
|
TxRx127 |
Yes that's right |
| 15:42 |
|
pdurbin |
i was trying to put this code in its own class but for now I'll just throw it in the backing bean, making it even longer |
| 15:43 |
|
pdurbin |
so I can work on what I actually want to work on |
| 15:45 |
|
TxRx127 |
try to restart glassfish |
| 15:45 |
|
TxRx127 |
? |
| 15:45 |
|
TxRx127 |
or delete and re-import your project into |
| 15:45 |
|
pdurbin |
many times... I learned that trick last time this happened :) |
| 15:46 |
|
TxRx127 |
have ever had the famous trollback exception ? or the "maybe" exception ? :p |
| 15:46 |
|
pdurbin |
my whole life is a trollback exception |
| 15:47 |
|
TxRx127 |
xD |
| 15:47 |
|
TxRx127 |
mine too |
| 15:48 |
|
pdurbin |
TxRx127: where are all these injection rules written down? |
| 15:49 |
|
TxRx127 |
in faces-config.xml |
| 15:50 |
|
pdurbin |
sorry, no, I meant how do you learn the rules? where are the rules themselves written down? |
| 15:54 |
|
TxRx127 |
Oh i read API and some doc ( sorry, tell me if i don't answer correctly, i don't speak english very well >< ) |
| 15:55 |
|
TxRx127 |
do you want some links ? |
| 15:55 |
|
pdurbin |
TxRx127: yes, links please :) |
| 15:55 |
|
TxRx127 |
Wait a minute ;) |
| 15:55 |
|
pdurbin |
I'm always here |
| 15:57 |
|
TxRx127 |
Official doc : http://docs.oracle.com/cd/E15051_01/wls/docs103/ejb30/annotations.html |
| 15:57 |
|
TxRx127 |
Somes websites: |
| 15:57 |
|
TxRx127 |
- http://www.tutorialspoint.com/ejb/ejb_annotations.htm |
| 15:57 |
|
TxRx127 |
- http://tomee.apache.org/ejb3-annotation-examples.html |
| 15:57 |
|
TxRx127 |
- https://glassfish.java.net/javaee5/ejb/examples/Sless.html (old) |
| 15:57 |
|
TxRx127 |
- https://glassfish.java.net/javaee5/ejb/EJB_FAQ.html (old) |
| 15:58 |
|
TxRx127 |
do you want doc for faces-config ? |
| 15:59 |
|
pdurbin |
not really. I still don't love XML ;) |
| 15:59 |
|
pdurbin |
TxRx127: but go ahead, if you want :) |
| 16:02 |
|
TxRx127 |
Some Examples: http://javahowto.blogspot.fr/2010/10/glassfish-webxml-and-sun-webxml.html |
| 16:02 |
|
TxRx127 |
http://techtipsjava.blogspot.fr/2012/12/creating-and-deploying-jsf-ejb-30.html |
| 16:02 |
|
TxRx127 |
http://biemond.blogspot.fr/2010/04/ejb-injection-in-jsf-managed-bean.html |
| 16:02 |
|
TxRx127 |
Voilà :) |
| 16:02 |
|
pdurbin |
TxRx127: thanks. much appreciated! |
| 16:04 |
|
TxRx127 |
You're welcome! :) |
| 16:13 |
|
sajjadg |
I like the way @annotations are replace the meed to use xml for configuration |
| 16:16 |
|
TxRx127 |
it's more readable! |
| 16:30 |
|
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| 16:54 |
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| 16:54 |
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neuro_sys joined ##javaee |
| 17:27 |
|
fabioportieri |
this fucking issue is driving me nuts |
| 17:28 |
|
fabioportieri |
helppp http://jsfiddle.net/yf5bL/2/ |
| 17:29 |
|
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Mufasa420 joined ##javaee |
| 17:33 |
|
fabioportieri |
ahh got it |
| 17:33 |
|
fabioportieri |
maybe |
| 17:34 |
|
fabioportieri |
finally |
| 17:37 |
|
* pdurbin |
dropped the f bomb this morning about the ejb null thing |
| 17:38 |
|
fabioportieri |
ahah ejb npe == classic! |
| 17:38 |
|
fabioportieri |
never goes old |
| 17:39 |
|
pdurbin |
fabioportieri: our designer talked me off the ledge |
| 17:40 |
|
fabioportieri |
yea i had a npe on ejb injection on websphere for 2 days |
| 17:40 |
|
fabioportieri |
the solution was to upgrade websphere :/ |
| 17:49 |
|
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| 17:57 |
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cem1 joined ##javaee |
| 17:58 |
|
cem1 |
anyone used dynamic reports |
| 18:04 |
|
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Artamerh joined ##javaee |
| 18:37 |
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tommmied joined ##javaee |
| 18:41 |
|
cem1 |
i'm the first 1 yahooo |
| 19:28 |
|
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Artamerh joined ##javaee |
| 19:39 |
|
whartung |
do I just need a single beans.xml file for the entire ear, or do individual library jars need them as well? Does it hurt if the libraries have their own beans.xml? |
| 19:40 |
|
whartung |
guess I can have them everywhere |
| 20:34 |
|
|
sajjadg joined ##javaee |
| 20:34 |
|
sess |
whartung: one per module i think |
| 20:34 |
|
sess |
that wants to use cdi that is |
| 20:34 |
|
sess |
i.e one in the WAR and one in each root JAR |
| 20:35 |
|
sajjadg |
netbeans with nimbus theme is beautiful :-) |
| 21:36 |
|
|
Voyage joined ##javaee |
| 21:37 |
|
Voyage |
Hi |
| 21:42 |
|
pdurbin |
Voyage: hi |
| 21:44 |
|
Voyage |
I have some experience with spring. i know some advantages. Why in the work people use pure JEE (as I heard that it gives same features as spring or is a rival) |
| 21:45 |
|
whartung |
different way to skin the same cat. |
| 21:45 |
|
Voyage |
hm. |
| 21:45 |
|
whartung |
I never cared for spring |
| 21:46 |
|
Voyage |
just like struts2, jsf, spring, JEE is a framwork |
| 21:46 |
|
whartung |
JEE is a standard |
| 21:46 |
|
whartung |
glass fish, web logic, web sphere, TomEE, Geronimo, there are no doubt others. |
| 21:47 |
|
sajjadg |
Aran from Oracle said that the development cycle of Java is like that: Java people see what's going on in other platforms and technologies like spring, rails, etc. and then add them to the next version of Java EE |
| 21:47 |
|
whartung |
sure, they beat to a different drummer |
| 21:48 |
|
sajjadg |
spring is where new things in Java happens and Java EE is where you see stable trimmed and standard technologies. |
| 21:48 |
|
whartung |
it put JEE behind the curve, but the actual implentations are more cosmopolitan taking details from other implementations. |
| 21:49 |
|
Voyage |
so its correct that JEE was bad in the start, learned from spring,. now is better than any out there? |
| 21:50 |
|
whartung |
Everything was "bad from the start" Spring wouldn't exist with out JEE in the first place. They just use each other as stepping stones. |
| 21:51 |
|
Voyage |
hm |
| 21:52 |
|
sajjadg |
Voyage: Spring started as a DI implementation and Java EE added CDI after some time. before CDI spring was so much better! but after CDI, you should see if you still need spring or not. |
| 21:52 |
|
Voyage |
whartung, but I guess spring is a prebuild framework of things that already are in raw form of JEE or JSE. it facilitates some repeated tasks in a prebuild manner for users. |
| 21:52 |
|
whartung |
such as Voyage ? |
| 21:52 |
|
CJ_ |
Spring is currently the bane of my existance. |
| 21:54 |
|
Voyage |
whartung, MVC, page redirect, @PathVariables , spring security, session management, (now we dont have to req.getsession, evaluate, compare. etc ) some other best practicies? |
| 21:54 |
|
sajjadg |
I suffered from spring too |
| 21:55 |
|
whartung |
JEE doesn't have an "MVC" standard, it arguably doesn't need one as a) MVC is slowly dying and b) there's 8000 of them out there already. I don't know what a @PathVariable is, JEE has had security and session management since forever. |
| 21:56 |
|
Voyage |
whartung, i though, and think MVC is good practice |
| 21:56 |
|
sajjadg |
now (in 2014) spring is very hard for someone who wants to start EE development. reading the spring documentation is horrible. so much alternatives and you can't understand why they are still in there. and they advocate use of XML a lot. I like/hate XML. |
| 21:56 |
|
Voyage |
dont you? |
| 21:56 |
|
Voyage |
sajjadg, spring 3, 4 are annotations based mostly |
| 21:57 |
|
sajjadg |
Voyage: yeah they have spring annotation but there's lots of XML config in there. I got confused :-/ |
| 21:57 |
|
whartung |
But web development is taking a hard turn away from that style of development. It's drifting in to service based "fat" JS apps and component based web apps. |
| 21:58 |
|
sajjadg |
I really really really wanted to use spring, but it was very bad with me. it rejected me :-/ and I don't want to come back |
| 21:58 |
|
whartung |
I looked at Spring MVC years ago and abandoned it, too PITA for me. |
| 21:59 |
|
sajjadg |
when it comes to services you don't need lots of EE stack. you can use few of the technologies and have fun with them. |
| 21:59 |
|
whartung |
it has, no doubt, changed greatly since I looked at it. |
| 21:59 |
|
whartung |
but it wasn't up to what I wanted to do at the time. |
| 21:59 |
|
sajjadg |
whartung: when? |
| 21:59 |
|
whartung |
'06 :) |
| 22:00 |
|
sajjadg |
before CDI!? |
| 22:00 |
|
sajjadg |
intersting |
| 22:01 |
|
whartung |
yes |
| 22:01 |
|
* whartung |
been working with JEE since '00 |
| 22:01 |
|
sajjadg |
whartung: this is SOA (SaaS, Cloud) era now. services talk and Html5 gets them |
| 22:02 |
|
whartung |
yes |
| 22:02 |
|
sajjadg |
whartung: there was EE in 00;s?! WoW. you are OLD :P |
| 22:02 |
|
Voyage |
sajjadg, that xml config is once for life time. you can just copy paste it to new projects :) |
| 22:03 |
|
sajjadg |
Voyage: DRY :P |
| 22:04 |
|
whartung |
which turns the XML in to Lore that no one understands, because no one has touched it in 2 years and the guy who wrote it is gone. |
| 22:04 |
|
whartung |
so it's not really an active part of the project |
| 22:04 |
|
Voyage |
so all that is possible with spring, can be done with JEE pure, and with same features / ease? |
| 22:05 |
|
whartung |
there are certainly distinctions, but I can't talk to them as I don't know spring. |
| 22:05 |
|
Voyage |
k |
| 22:05 |
|
sajjadg |
Voyage: I see Java EE to be so much cleaner and trimmed version of spring. so it's better IMO |
| 22:06 |
|
whartung |
JEE hasn't got in my way in any particularly dramatic way as long as I've been using it. |
| 22:06 |
|
Voyage |
hm |
| 22:06 |
|
whartung |
and it's nice to know that my code from 14 years ago will run on a modern container. |
| 22:07 |
|
Voyage |
! |
| 22:07 |
|
whartung |
standards, yo |
| 22:07 |
|
sess |
other than the choice of web frameworks, jEE and spring is pretty much identical |
| 22:07 |
|
Voyage |
whartung, thats not the case with 14 year old spring? |
| 22:07 |
|
whartung |
I don't know Voyage -- I don't use spring |
| 22:07 |
|
Voyage |
sess, identical? like? |
| 22:07 |
|
Voyage |
whartung, k |
| 22:07 |
|
sess |
working with them |
| 22:07 |
|
Voyage |
hm |
| 22:08 |
|
sess |
spring is easier to test |
| 22:08 |
|
Voyage |
sess, I really would like to see a pure JEE app |
| 22:08 |
|
sess |
and puts less requirements on the server |
| 22:08 |
|
whartung |
how so sees? |
| 22:08 |
|
Voyage |
sess, just because of DI? |
| 22:08 |
|
sess |
yes |
| 22:08 |
|
sess |
EJB |
| 22:08 |
|
sess |
spring bean |
| 22:08 |
|
whartung |
modern JEE is the same way sess |
| 22:08 |
|
sess |
who cares, same shit :V |
| 22:08 |
|
sajjadg |
Do you know Pacal thivent from stackoverflow? http://stackoverflow.com/users/70604/pascal-thivent?tab=answers&sort=newest |
| 22:08 |
|
whartung |
yup |
| 22:08 |
|
Voyage |
sess, spring is easy to test just because of DI? |
| 22:08 |
|
sess |
transactions works the same |
| 22:08 |
|
sess |
DI works the same |
| 22:08 |
|
sess |
spriung is easy to test because it is made to work outside a container |
| 22:08 |
|
whartung |
spring uses the JEE annotations for injection now also |
| 22:08 |
|
sajjadg |
without any activity in last 4 years, he's one of the top users of stack |
| 22:09 |
|
sess |
DI doesnt work at all outside jEE containers |
| 22:09 |
|
sess |
for EJB |
| 22:09 |
|
sajjadg |
and he advocates Java EE :P |
| 22:09 |
|
sess |
my latest project actually uses spring mvc on top of EJB :) |
| 22:09 |
|
whartung |
wow -- he's busy |
| 22:10 |
|
whartung |
has't been on in a year |
| 22:10 |
|
sajjadg |
whartung: his last answer is from '10 |
| 22:10 |
|
whartung |
I imagine if you want to stand up CDI for testing, you can do it. |
| 22:11 |
|
Voyage |
CDI? |
| 22:11 |
|
whartung |
JEEs IoC framework |
| 22:11 |
|
whartung |
(can I use that term any more?) |
| 22:12 |
|
Voyage |
whats cdi |
| 22:12 |
|
whartung |
I sure hope that guy is ok -- he seems to have drooped on the net sajjadg |
| 22:12 |
|
whartung |
Context Dependency Injection |
| 22:12 |
|
cem1 |
hello all i found there is no way to change colspan value dynamically in primefaces |
| 22:14 |
|
sajjadg |
whartung: yeah. I googled him a lot. and he's been inactive for 3 years. I hope he's OK. :-/ he's answers on stackoverflow are gold |
| 22:17 |
|
sajjadg |
I rally hate Micro$oft technologies, but I should say that stackoverflow is one of the best websites ever. very fast and handy. |
| 22:18 |
|
sajjadg |
really* |
| 22:18 |
|
whartung |
just goes to show you it's not the tool... |
| 22:18 |
|
sajjadg |
true. |
| 22:19 |
|
whartung |
it's just code -- it'll do what you tell it. |
| 22:20 |
|
sajjadg |
whartung: how old are you? |
| 22:20 |
|
whartung |
I don't use the because I don't know them, and never really cared for them. I was very disappointed back in the day when I had a simple SQL query to SQL Server kill the entire machine. |
| 22:21 |
|
whartung |
old and creaky |
| 22:21 |
|
whartung |
old old |
| 22:21 |
|
whartung |
really old |
| 22:21 |
|
whartung |
omg old |
| 22:21 |
|
sajjadg |
whartung: sorry. how young are you :P? |
| 22:21 |
|
whartung |
my TV is closer to your age than I am |
| 22:22 |
|
whartung |
young. Childishly young. Run laughing in the meadows chasing string young. |
| 22:22 |
|
whartung |
BUTTERFLIES! |
| 22:22 |
|
sajjadg |
how old is your TV? :P |
| 22:22 |
|
whartung |
18 |
| 22:22 |
|
sajjadg |
your TV is really old! |
| 22:22 |
|
cem1 |
hello all i found there is no way to change colspan value dynamically in primefaces |
| 22:23 |
|
whartung |
how do you think I feel?? |
| 22:23 |
|
sajjadg |
why do you keep it?! |
| 22:23 |
|
cem1 |
hello all i found there is no way to change colspan value dynamically in primefaces |
| 22:23 |
|
whartung |
well, see, I click the power button on the remote and the damn thing just lights up like always…amazing! |
| 22:23 |
|
sajjadg |
18 is very for a TV but for a human 18 is nothing whartung |
| 22:24 |
|
sajjadg |
whartung: keep it for some years and then donate it to the museum :P |
| 22:24 |
|
whartung |
I remodeling the house this year, so it will likely not survive it. |
| 22:25 |
|
sajjadg |
whartung: so you are from those years that there was no Java, no Internet, no C++ ? |
| 22:25 |
|
whartung |
yes |
| 22:25 |
|
sajjadg |
I'm getting closer :P |
| 22:25 |
|
whartung |
Why, yes, I have used punch cards. I missed core memory however. |
| 22:26 |
|
sajjadg |
you should be around 40 years old with +-2 years |
| 22:26 |
|
whartung |
This was my first computer, not counting a programmable calculator: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KIM-1 |
| 22:29 |
|
whartung |
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atari_8-bit_family second computer |
| 22:29 |
|
whartung |
3rd computer http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atari_8-bit_family |
| 22:30 |
|
whartung |
4th http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_NT650 |
| 22:30 |
|
whartung |
I sold my mac and bought one of those -- Motorcycle > Computers... |
| 22:30 |
|
whartung |
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NeXTstation 5th computer |
| 22:31 |
|
* whartung |
hates spending $$ on computers |
| 22:32 |
|
sajjadg |
whartung: you had fun with computers |
| 22:32 |
|
sajjadg |
computers was fun at those time |
| 22:32 |
|
whartung |
I rode the wave |
| 22:32 |
|
sajjadg |
you had the chance to grow up with technology |
| 22:32 |
|
sajjadg |
that's great |
| 22:32 |
|
sajjadg |
I missed that chance. |
| 22:32 |
|
whartung |
expensive hobby. |
| 22:32 |
|
whartung |
hate to add up how much I've spent on the damn things lol |
| 22:33 |
|
sajjadg |
I really like history. I always read histories of technology and how they evolved. it's very nice to live it |
| 22:33 |
|
* whartung |
was excited to by his first 1G drive for only $1/mb |
| 22:33 |
|
sajjadg |
mb? |
| 22:34 |
|
whartung |
mega byte |
| 22:34 |
|
whartung |
it's an old term... |
| 22:34 |
|
sajjadg |
MB :-) |
| 22:34 |
|
whartung |
there was a nice reference |
| 22:34 |
|
whartung |
2 Mac OS X icons consume all of the original 128k on the early Mac. |
| 22:35 |
|
sajjadg |
:-) |
| 22:35 |
|
sajjadg |
my first OS was XP :P |
| 22:35 |
|
sajjadg |
and the second was Linux :P |
| 22:36 |
|
sajjadg |
I had my first PC till last year and I it's my 3rd laptop. |
| 22:36 |
|
sajjadg |
I just had 2 phones. |
| 22:36 |
|
whartung |
well not counting BASIC on an IMASI 8080 or CBM PET, my first OS was CDC NOS on a Cyber 730 mainframe. |
| 22:36 |
|
sajjadg |
the first one lasted for 6 years |
| 22:36 |
|
whartung |
my mac pro at home is pushing 8 years |
| 22:38 |
|
sajjadg |
we had a class in school that we learned a little DOS and windows. but because we didn't have computers we couldn't learn more! |
| 22:40 |
|
sajjadg |
whartung: what was your first programming lang? |
| 22:40 |
|
whartung |
basic |
| 22:40 |
|
sajjadg |
second? |
| 22:40 |
|
whartung |
Dijkstra was wrong |
| 22:40 |
|
sajjadg |
about what? |
| 22:40 |
|
whartung |
Z80 and 6502 Machine Lanaguge |
| 22:41 |
|
sajjadg |
have you heard that theory? "one who starts with basics never learns how to program?" |
| 22:41 |
|
whartung |
"It is practically impossible to teach good programming to students that have had a prior exposure to BASIC: as potential programmers they are mentally mutilated beyond hope of regeneration." -- |
| 22:42 |
|
whartung |
That's Dijkstra |
| 22:42 |
|
whartung |
Thank God for BASIC. |
| 22:42 |
|
whartung |
After BASIC and assembly came FORTRAN, Forth, Pascal, C |
| 22:45 |
|
sajjadg |
which one is your favorite? |
| 22:45 |
|
sajjadg |
from those ^ |
| 22:45 |
|
whartung |
C. Forth is the more interesting though. |
| 22:46 |
|
sajjadg |
Pascal? |
| 22:46 |
|
sajjadg |
:-P |
| 22:46 |
|
whartung |
?? |
| 22:46 |
|
sajjadg |
Pascal is my first programming lang. and I kinda like it very much |
| 22:47 |
|
whartung |
Turbo Pascal was awesome in the day. Delphi was very nice also. UCSD was a pretty cool system. C is better though, for all it's pain. |
| 22:48 |
|
sajjadg |
whartung: Delphi was great at that time. huge toolbox with lots of functionality. I am sorry for borland...and I don't know why they lost in this battle |
| 22:49 |
|
whartung |
Java happened, then .NET |
| 22:49 |
|
sajjadg |
my second lang was Delphi. |
| 22:49 |
|
sajjadg |
it was awesome |
| 22:49 |
|
whartung |
I did a couple of delphi projects |
| 22:49 |
|
whartung |
wrote my own ORM for it |
| 22:49 |
|
sajjadg |
but after I came to university I never heard of it again. just Java, C/C++ and C# |
| 22:49 |
|
whartung |
yup |
| 22:50 |
|
whartung |
I have no doubt that C# is better than Delphi. C# is pretty neat. |
| 22:51 |
|
sajjadg |
they taught us pascal in the first year of university and then I studied C++, C, C#, Java, Python, php later. |
| 22:51 |
|
cem1 |
they didnt teach anyhthing |
| 22:52 |
|
sajjadg |
but I migrated to Linux in the middle of university and I had to quit C# and start using java or C++/Qt |
| 22:53 |
|
sajjadg |
cem1: right. they taught us functional programming with pascal and they never taught us OO. It took 4 years for me to understand what it is! |
| 22:53 |
|
sajjadg |
and I still feel I miss something! |
| 22:55 |
|
whartung |
what do you think you are missing? |
| 22:55 |
|
cem1 |
i dont know how much i know the language |
| 22:56 |
|
cem1 |
if i see the channel seniors they are preety good |
| 22:56 |
|
sajjadg |
whartung: I don't exactly know. but I never had self confidence to write a program |
| 22:56 |
|
whartung |
you need to write more programs. |
| 22:57 |
|
sajjadg |
all my OO programs are incomplete |
| 22:57 |
|
sajjadg |
I really need to finish one of them... |
| 22:57 |
|
whartung |
and try writing as much of it as you can yourself without relying on anything outside of the stock JDK. |
| 22:57 |
|
whartung |
or, perhaps, the servlet api if you're doing a web app |
| 22:57 |
|
whartung |
even the jdk has too much stuff :) |
| 23:00 |
|
whartung |
go write a computer game. Computer games are wonderful. Use crummy graphics, they're a distraction. |
| 23:03 |
|
sajjadg |
whartung: I love games. I semi-wrote a snake game with pascal and wrote 2 games with PMD (Pascal for mobile) |
| 23:03 |
|
whartung |
there ya go. |
| 23:03 |
|
whartung |
do some more |
| 23:04 |
|
whartung |
the more you write, those more you think your code sucks, and the more you try new things thinking that will make your code better. |
| 23:04 |
|
whartung |
(it might, it might not, won't know until you try) |
| 23:04 |
|
sajjadg |
whartung: I really tried to start writing another game. but games nowaday need openGL and lots of other graphical things |
| 23:04 |
|
whartung |
no they don't |
| 23:04 |
|
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Voyage joined ##javaee |
| 23:05 |
|
whartung |
you're not writing it to ship it. you're writing it because writing games on your spare time is far more intereting than writing accounting systems or inventory management suites. |
| 23:06 |
|
sajjadg |
whartung: right. |
| 23:06 |
|
whartung |
go write Connect 4. |
| 23:06 |
|
whartung |
watch it beat you every game :) |
| 23:06 |
|
whartung |
write 3D tic tac toe |
| 23:06 |
|
whartung |
oooh…"AI" |
| 23:10 |
|
sajjadg |
whartung: by the way, I'm did some Java EE projects before with spring, Ejb, JPA, JAX-RS and some java SE project along with some db jobs. some one them for a company and most of them for myself. |
| 23:10 |
|
whartung |
cool |
| 23:10 |
|
whartung |
good times |
| 23:10 |
|
sajjadg |
but game always is an option on the table |
| 23:10 |
|
sajjadg |
:P |
| 23:10 |
|
whartung |
always exciting to see your stuff work. |
| 23:10 |
|
sajjadg |
I like games |
| 23:11 |
|
sajjadg |
I kinda like the management work. |
| 23:12 |
|
sajjadg |
I like to search about the techs, then build the stack, start the project and then have somebody develop them for me and I manage them/and code along with them! but I can't find somebody! |
| 23:12 |
|
sajjadg |
I tried very hard but most people are stupid! |
| 23:12 |
|
whartung |
no, most people are ignorant -- there's a difference |
| 23:14 |
|
sajjadg |
yeah. but I am referring to those who are not ignorant :P |
| 23:15 |
|
sajjadg |
whartung: for gaming, Java or C++? |
| 23:16 |
|
sajjadg |
I was part of a game project but the code was so hard for me at that time... |
| 23:16 |
|
sajjadg |
I wrote some code but C++ libs are disaster |
| 23:20 |
|
whartung |
whichever you want to learn and be more comfortable with |
| 23:21 |
|
sajjadg |
Java is sooo much easier and fun to work with :-) |
| 23:21 |
|
whartung |
there ya go |
| 23:21 |
|
sajjadg |
whartung: idea, eclipse or netbeans? |
| 23:21 |
|
sajjadg |
or vim? |
| 23:21 |
|
sajjadg |
:P |
| 23:21 |
|
whartung |
it's not about the game, it's about what you want to accomplish at the end. |
| 23:22 |
|
whartung |
"It's the journey" kind of thing |
| 23:24 |
|
sajjadg |
whartung: learning Java in android SDK is cool :-) |
| 23:25 |
|
whartung |
write a game on that then |
| 23:25 |
|
sajjadg |
whartung: you see. that's the problem... |
| 23:25 |
|
sajjadg |
I'm watching html5 game development videos from youtube :P |
| 23:25 |
|
sajjadg |
I can't make a choice |
| 23:25 |
|
sajjadg |
I can't give something up easily |
| 23:25 |
|
whartung |
sure you do. You choose to not make a choice. |
| 23:26 |
|
sajjadg |
I should be 90% sure :P |
| 23:26 |
|
sajjadg |
:( |
| 23:29 |
|
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| 23:40 |
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Naros left ##javaee |
