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IRC log for #javaee, 2013-09-19

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time S Nick Message
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08:37 balazare pdurbin: indeed ipython looks interesting - lots of different apps they describe. Have you tried it on your stuff?
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10:17 pdurbin balazare: no, but I should today or tomorrow while I'm on site with the guys who are familiar with it
10:21 balazare pdurbin: nice! love to hear how it works for you. It's more intrusive than restfuse, but has some really nice things
10:24 pdurbin balazare: sure. oh, there's also #rest here on freenode
10:25 balazare pdurbin: really - thanks for the tip
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19:03 acuzio tjsnell: Have you ever written any strategy documents ?
19:03 pdurbin acuzio: bah. i was *just* about to follow up with balazare :)
19:04 acuzio i am in the wrong channel - sorry pdurbin
19:04 acuzio is Quest around ?
19:05 pdurbin balazare: ipython notebook is nice. can just do "import requests" ... "r = requests.get("http://google.com")" ... r.content
19:07 balazare pdurbin: that is small! doesn't look like you need any fluff around it
19:08 balazare pdurbin: have you tried sessions by chance?
19:15 pdurbin balazare: no, but the guys here say it works well. they love that requests library
19:16 balazare pdurbin: looks really clean - I'll check it out
19:19 pdurbin cool
22:27 Guest32138 joined ##javaee
22:30 Guest32138 java dont support icmp?
22:31 sfisque only via JNI
22:32 sfisque one of the reasons that java has such "low" utilization in the NMS world
22:32 Guest32138 sfisque,  what if i want to create some purely customized packets and send it to a port.  (some alien protocol)
22:32 Guest32138 NMS world?
22:33 sfisque network management system
22:33 Guest32138 java is bad in graphics / multii media / videos / network
22:33 sfisque do you mean encapsulating a packet inside an ethernet packet or a real ethernet packet with a non-standard header?
22:33 Guest32138 real packet
22:34 Guest32138 every thing customized
22:34 sfisque what does "real" packet mean?
22:34 sfisque you have the hardware to route this custom packet?  if your header isnt ieee compliant, it wont get routed
22:35 Guest32138 a packet that I created.  the headers, source ip, (spoofing may take place but dont take me wrong) , payload . etc
22:35 sfisque the only thing you can "customize" is the payload, and "certain fields" in the header
22:35 sfisque others are strict in definition
22:35 sfisque actually most are
22:36 sfisque if you are building a frame from scratch, java is not the right choice anyway.  use C
22:36 sfisque or asm
22:36 Guest32138 isnt it true that i can create a packet for icmp, a packet for  http request. a packet for "my own protocol on port  1337" ?
22:36 Guest32138 and send it
22:37 sfisque unless they've changed it recently, you cannot do icmp via java, unless you go out to a native lib via JNI
22:37 sfisque and afaik, you cannot talk http on icmp
22:37 sfisque icmp is for specific kinds of traffic
22:38 Guest32138 ok. lets start with concepts
22:38 sfisque ok
22:38 Guest32138 to communicate. we need a packet. that may have headers, payload etc.  and a port to send it to.
22:38 Guest32138 right?
22:38 sfisque depends
22:38 Guest32138 on?
22:39 Guest32138 well narrowing the arguments.
22:39 Guest32138 lets take e.g of http or icmp
22:39 Guest32138 we need a packet and a port to communicate either?
22:39 Guest32138 right?
22:39 sfisque apples and oranges
22:40 Guest32138 yes but thats the same to communicate.
22:40 Guest32138 packer + port. right?
22:40 sfisque negative
22:40 sfisque different layers
22:40 Guest32138 sure. yes.
22:40 Guest32138 but they need those two things.
22:40 Guest32138 right?
22:41 Guest32138 a packet sent in a specific format and on a specific port becomes the basis of communication in any protocol/service ?
22:41 sfisque minimally you need a header and payload
22:42 Guest32138 yes. those are the contents of a packet.
22:42 Guest32138 so.
22:42 sfisque http is layer 4, iirc and icmp is layer 2 (been a number of years, so my memory is vague)
22:42 Guest32138 all i am asking is. how to create a packet with headers, payload , etc and send it to a port in java ?         now that can be an http, ftp, or icmp
22:43 sfisque you're mixing two different layers there
22:43 sfisque please, read up on OSI networking model
22:43 Guest32138 layers just wrap low level layers still packets
22:43 sfisque it's not that simple
22:43 Guest32138 ok.
22:44 Guest32138 ignore http
22:44 Guest32138 how to create the packets for icmp ?
22:44 sfisque i told you
22:44 Guest32138 jni?
22:44 sfisque unless something has changed, you need to link to a native library via jni
22:44 Guest32138 any examples of layer 1 ?
22:45 Guest32138 am. native lib for plate form specifics. hate that
22:45 sfisque twisted pair
22:45 sfisque layer 1 = physical layer (twisted pair, coax, wifi, etc.)
22:46 pdurbin sfisque: good memory ;)
22:46 Guest32138 am ?
22:46 sfisque i'm digging through somne areas that have formatted sectors :P
22:52 Guest32138 sfisque,  http://stackoverflow.com/questions/8141118/jnetpcap-preparing-udp-tcp-ip-icmp-packet      sounds ok ?
22:58 sfisque yah, it appears that jpcap is a java wrapper around libpcap (native library)
22:59 sfisque which tells me that they still have not added icmp support in java
22:59 Guest32138 so now i can send icmp packet or http packet?
22:59 sfisque you can always send http packet.  that's layered on top of tcp/ip
22:59 sfisque icmp != tcp/ip
23:00 Guest32138 tcp ip is layer 3 i gues
23:00 sfisque iirc yes.  and ip is layer 2
23:00 sfisque tcp - layer 3, ip layer 2, iirc.  again, it's been a number of y ears since i've used this knowledge
23:00 Guest32138 np
23:00 Guest32138 so i can send icmp packets too by jpcap?
23:01 sfisque might be reversed
23:01 sfisque let me look it up
23:01 sfisque appears as such
23:01 pdurbin layer 2 is MAC addresses
23:01 pdurbin (for example)
23:02 sfisque ok so that makes icmp and tcp/ip both layer 3
23:02 sfisque unless i'm still forgetting stuff
23:04 pdurbin http is layer 7, I believe
23:04 sfisque that far up?
23:04 sfisque i would have guessed 5 or 6
23:06 sfisque ok looking at the OSI chart.  i looks like the "services" are layer 7
23:06 Guest32138 lib pcap for linux and winpcap for windows are the OS native libs?
23:06 sfisque tcp and udp are layer 4
23:07 sfisque libpcap iirc, is any *nix
23:07 sfisque never used winpcap but i'd guess it's the windows analog
23:07 Guest32138 hm
23:07 Guest32138 so jpcap is my obvouse choice?
23:08 Guest32138 whats the best lib for that?  i assume apache might have made some?
23:08 sfisque aye, but i'm curious, what are you trying to do?  you might not even need that
23:08 Guest32138 trust me. I do :)
23:09 sfisque i am unconvinced of that, based on the questions you have been asking
23:10 Guest32138 am.. I need to make an app to pen test a network.
23:11 Guest32138 creating syn requests by spoofed many ips as senders.
23:11 Guest32138 with many threads
23:11 Guest32138 so i do need some way to change ips on every packet of icmp
23:11 Guest32138 thats why i need it.
23:12 Guest32138 there are many apps that do it. but i want to make my own for further customizations
23:12 Guest32138 sfisque,  get the idea?
23:13 sfisque so you're pen testing ping packets?  or higher services?
23:13 sfisque icmp packets are primarily "info gathering" level, they dont carry any real services
23:14 Guest32138 well, the network and its entities
23:14 sfisque if you're looking to do port scanning, you can do that in java without libpcap
23:14 Guest32138 sfisque,  no. iam creating a syn flood DOS
23:15 Guest32138 and observing how routers respond
23:15 sfisque aye but syn packets,  iirc are tcp/ip, not icmp
23:16 Guest32138 icmp ping first does syn , then syn-ack is recieved, then ack
23:16 Guest32138 send.
23:16 Guest32138 if iam not wrong?
23:17 sfisque maybe.  that does sound familiar (again, it's been a long time ive had to worry about this stuff)
23:18 sfisque but you're coaxing me to spend some time brushing up on it
23:18 sfisque :-)
23:18 Guest32138 sfisque,  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denial-of-service_attack#.28S.29SYN_flood
23:19 sfisque i was right
23:19 sfisque the SYN flood is tcp
23:19 sfisque based on that link
23:20 Guest32138 hm.
23:21 Guest32138 hm.. thats true. that link had nothing to do with icmp
23:21 sfisque look above it.  it describes the icmp flood
23:23 sfisque i would argue that if you're really building a legitimate pen test tool, C or asm are better choices
23:23 sfisque trust me, i LOVE java, but there are better languages for certain tasks
23:23 sfisque and if you know java, you know 80% of C
23:24 sfisque syntactically speaking
23:24 Guest32138 I dont know c much
23:24 Guest32138 and i agree what you said
23:25 Guest32138 but syntax is not all. libs , ways, etc, envirment takes a lot learning time
23:25 Guest32138 sfisque,  i would go for c++ instead of c
23:26 sfisque aye but if you're doing low level stuff, the OO bits of C++ can be krufty or get in the way
23:26 sfisque but yeay, C++ would do fine too
23:29 Guest32138 so the problem is much solved i want to experiment with java
23:29 Guest32138 so creating tcp packets for , say port 80,         I should use jpcap?
23:30 sfisque you can use java natively for that
23:31 sfisque though i do not think you haev the ability to do "packet rewriting"
23:31 sfisque you'd need a native lib (aka libpcap) for that
23:31 Guest32138 jpcap is easier i gues
23:43 Guest32138 sfisque,  so as long iam in java (not preferable). jpcap is fine?
23:44 sfisque should be
23:56 temhawk joined ##javaee
23:56 temhawk help. i have Java 7 installed. when i double-click a .jar file the program runs. however, i need to run the program with more memory so i try the `java` command-line utility. problem is, when i do that it says "Unsupported major.minor version 51.0". i don't even have Java 6 installed on this system (OS X 10.7.5) as you can see here: http://i.imgur.com/RX6wqPe.png
23:57 temhawk the command i tried is: java -jar -Xmx4096m program.jar
23:58 temhawk the command "type java" gives: java is hashed (/usr/bin/java)
23:58 grug this isn't really a tech support channel :P
23:58 sfisque in terminal, type "ls -la `which java`"
23:58 temhawk ok, thanks
23:58 sfisque those are backticks
23:59 temhawk it's a symlink to /System/Library/Frameworks/JavaVM.fra​mework/Versions/Current/Commands/java
23:59 sfisque i'm betting /usr/bin/java is symlinked to a v6 jre
23:59 sfisque ok, now "ls -la /System/Library/Frameworks/​JavaVM.framework/Versions"
23:59 temhawk sfisque: doesn't look like it
23:59 sfisque what does Current point to, it's a symlink
23:59 temhawk Current -> A

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Please see http://irclog.greptilian.com/javaee for which days have been logged.