| Time |
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Message |
| 02:00 |
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nanoz joined ##friendlyjava |
| 02:02 |
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nanoz left ##friendlyjava |
| 06:24 |
|
mr_lou |
Morning! |
| 06:25 |
|
mr_lou |
Is there any (easy) way of changing/setting screen mode with Java? I see we have DisplayMode, but I just get a "Unable to change screenmode" exception. |
| 09:07 |
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aditsu joined ##friendlyjava |
| 11:27 |
|
aditsu |
mr_lou: are you using full screen exclusive mode? have you checked https://docs.oracle.com/javase/tutorial/extra/fullscreen/displaymode.html ? |
| 11:36 |
|
mr_lou |
No |
| 11:36 |
|
mr_lou |
Will take a peak. |
| 11:40 |
|
mr_lou |
Hmm... |
| 11:41 |
|
mr_lou |
The try...finally block looks weird to me. Doesn't a "finally" always get called? So that would mean it jumps out of fullscreen right away? |
| 11:42 |
|
aditsu |
mr_lou: I assume all your drawing code goes in the "..." section |
| 11:43 |
|
aditsu |
then the "finally" part gets called at the end |
| 11:43 |
|
mr_lou |
Well.... the isDisplayChangeSupported() method returns false.... so..... |
| 11:43 |
|
mr_lou |
I guess that answers my question. |
| 11:44 |
|
* mr_lou |
is trying to figure out ways to view a 50fps video in actual 50 fps.... meaning the screen has to be 50hz or 100hz etc. |
| 11:44 |
|
mr_lou |
But all PC monitors along with phone- and tablet displays are always 60hz or 120hz. |
| 11:45 |
|
mr_lou |
Gives a very ugly result when a scrolltext "jumps" across the screen instead of gliding elegantly. |
| 11:45 |
|
mr_lou |
That's one of the many reasons why I picked Blu-ray for 8-bit Memoirs. I wanted the videos to look awesome. |
| 11:46 |
|
aditsu |
if it appears to jump, I'm guessing that the actual rate it's displaying is much lower than 60fps (or the original video is jumpy) |
| 11:47 |
|
mr_lou |
Well true. The "jump" symptom appears when displaying a 60 fps video on a 50 hz screen. When it's the other way arround there are 1 frame displayed twice 6 times each second. It looks terrible. |
| 11:48 |
|
mr_lou |
But apparently I'm the only one in the world who seems to mind it. |
| 11:48 |
|
mr_lou |
Look at this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvf2qCpynzo&list=PLB3048BF925CEF9FA |
| 11:49 |
|
mr_lou |
Scrolltexts..... :-| |
| 11:49 |
|
mr_lou |
Naturally runs smoothly on the real machine. But just looks ugly here because of the 60hz monitor you're using. |
| 11:49 |
|
mr_lou |
So my question is: How can we watch 50 fps videos nowadays? Apart from using Blu-ray that is. |
| 11:49 |
|
aditsu |
even if it's showing it at 25fps, if the playback speed is smooth, there shouldn't be any noticeable jumping (unless you're really observant to tiny details) |
| 11:50 |
|
aditsu |
that youtube video has terrible quality and is originally jumpy |
| 11:51 |
|
aditsu |
I think any video player should be able to handle any fps rate |
| 11:51 |
|
aditsu |
you can play back that video in 0.25 speed, see how bad it is |
| 11:52 |
|
mr_lou |
Well it happens on all Amstrad CPC videos on YouTube. |
| 11:52 |
|
mr_lou |
Any 50 fps video you play on a PC. |
| 11:52 |
|
aditsu |
maybe there are some technical problems about capturing the videos? |
| 11:52 |
|
mr_lou |
No |
| 11:52 |
|
mr_lou |
They are captured from emulator most of them, which records 50 fps. |
| 11:53 |
|
mr_lou |
50 fps on a 60hz display doesn't match. |
| 11:53 |
|
mr_lou |
That's the problem. |
| 11:53 |
|
mr_lou |
But a Blu-ray player tells the TV to change its refresh rate to match the fps of the video, and then it looks awesome. |
| 11:53 |
|
mr_lou |
I've read that Kodi should do this too, but haven't tested. But everywhere else we're stuck with 60 hz. |
| 11:54 |
|
aditsu |
you're making some assumptions.. |
| 11:54 |
|
mr_lou |
Assumptions is what you say before trying it out. What I'm stating comes from lots of experience. |
| 11:54 |
|
mr_lou |
All my videos from 8-bit MEmoirs looks awesome on the Blu-ray |
| 11:54 |
|
aditsu |
that particular video has 25fps |
| 11:55 |
|
mr_lou |
But play the same video on a PC = ugly. Not a 1:1 frame playback - because of the 60hz monitor. |
| 11:55 |
|
aditsu |
and is originally jumpy |
| 11:56 |
|
aditsu |
if what you said was true, then tons and tons of dvds would be unwatchable |
| 11:56 |
|
mr_lou |
I could find another then, but it seems there's no point. |
| 11:56 |
|
mr_lou |
No it wouldn't, because DVD players and Blu-ray players CHANGES the refresh rate of the TV. |
| 11:57 |
|
aditsu |
I don't have a tv, nor a dvd player :p just monitor and dvd drive |
| 11:57 |
|
mr_lou |
And you also don't notice it much in movies anyway. You do notice it when a scrolltext is supposed to glide smoothly across the screen, and it doesn't. |
| 11:57 |
|
aditsu |
lots of movie intros have gliding text |
| 11:57 |
|
mr_lou |
Playing a 50 fps video on a 60 hz display will result in 6 frames being shown twice each second. |
| 11:58 |
|
mr_lou |
And this appears as a "hickup". |
| 11:58 |
|
aditsu |
actually, I think it would be 10 frames |
| 12:00 |
|
aditsu |
also, video players can use various techniques to make it smoother than the basic crude approach |
| 12:00 |
|
aditsu |
but if the original video is terrible (like the one you linked), there's nothing you can do about it |
| 12:01 |
|
mr_lou |
Not 10. Think about it. |
| 12:01 |
|
aditsu |
60 frames shown in a second, from 50 frames in the video - do the math |
| 12:02 |
|
mr_lou |
Video starts at first frame and first update. Meaning 1/50 of the second and 1/60 of the update. The next frame comes 1/50 of a second later, but the next update comes 1/60 later - sooner than the next frame. Ergo the first frame of the video is shown twice. But the next couldply of frames falls within the same timespan, and therefor looks ok. |
| 12:03 |
|
aditsu |
every 5th frame would be shown twice |
| 12:05 |
|
aditsu |
somewhat related: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telecine |
| 12:11 |
|
aditsu |
so anyway, before blaming the refresh rate, check the video frame by frame to see if it has any bad jumps originally |
| 12:12 |
|
aditsu |
the one you linked is terrible |
| 12:16 |
|
aditsu |
also, you can try to display a 50fps scrolling text from a program, and see how good it looks |
| 12:16 |
|
aditsu |
or even 25fps |
| 12:18 |
|
mr_lou |
You're right. It's every 5th frame that gets shown twice. |
| 12:19 |
|
mr_lou |
But listen. I've spend years on this, making 50 fps videos for 8-bit Memoirs. I know it's a problem. So I picked a video on YouTube that apparently had another problem. It sure looked like the same problem. And there are many others. Almost any CPC video or even C64 video you can find. |
| 12:19 |
|
mr_lou |
I'm hunting for ways to view 50 fps videos properly. |
| 12:20 |
|
aditsu |
well, do you have any 50 fps video that demonstrates the problem? |
| 12:20 |
|
mr_lou |
Lots |
| 12:20 |
|
mr_lou |
But you already agree. |
| 12:20 |
|
mr_lou |
Every 5th frame will be shown twice you say. |
| 12:20 |
|
mr_lou |
This of course renders a smooth scrolltext non-smooth. |
| 12:21 |
|
aditsu |
yes, but I don't agree that it's a problem |
| 12:21 |
|
mr_lou |
And movement. |
| 12:21 |
|
mr_lou |
It is. |
| 12:21 |
|
mr_lou |
But ok. |
| 12:21 |
|
mr_lou |
Hang on |
| 12:21 |
|
aditsu |
well, can you give me a link? |
| 12:27 |
|
mr_lou |
A 25 fps video doesn't match 60 hz either, and would still give these hickups. |
| 12:28 |
|
aditsu |
25fps would be somewhat worse, but still not bad |
| 12:28 |
|
mr_lou |
But if we're debating whether or not you will see it as a problem, then you'll of course win, but it can be compared to audio quality when debating with an audiophgile |
| 12:28 |
|
mr_lou |
The scrolltext in this video is not smooth: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QBEMttnI9fQ |
| 12:28 |
|
mr_lou |
At the beginning. |
| 12:28 |
|
mr_lou |
And I know most will say "Come on". |
| 12:28 |
|
mr_lou |
But it's not. |
| 12:28 |
|
mr_lou |
Now I can't see how many FPS it is, but it must be 50 or 25 because it's recorded from an emulator. |
| 12:29 |
|
mr_lou |
And the CPC outputs 50 fps |
| 12:29 |
|
aditsu |
yes, I notice some small jumps, let me check frame by frame |
| 12:29 |
|
mr_lou |
Which will never look 100% right on a 60hz screen. |
| 12:29 |
|
mr_lou |
It is particular back with scrolltexts |
| 12:29 |
|
mr_lou |
But also sprite movement in general. |
| 12:31 |
|
aditsu |
even if it's not 100% right, I think the problems you are noticing are mainly due to bad videos (or in some cases possibly jumpy scrolling on the original machine) |
| 12:34 |
|
aditsu |
ugh, it's downloading very slowly.. |
| 12:35 |
|
mr_lou |
Well.... I'm seeing the problem on my PC with videos on my harddisk. Comparing PC playback of the same M2TS with the Blu-ray playback. |
| 12:36 |
|
mr_lou |
But there's no doubt that most people don't care. |
| 12:37 |
|
aditsu |
do you have a short sample? |
| 12:38 |
|
mr_lou |
Not a short one. Would have to edit. |
| 12:38 |
|
mr_lou |
270 mb |
| 12:38 |
|
aditsu |
finally downloaded that video, it is 30fps and originally a bit jumpy |
| 12:39 |
|
mr_lou |
30 fps... gawd. |
| 12:39 |
|
mr_lou |
I'm surrounded by morons. |
| 12:39 |
|
aditsu |
1 frame jumps a pixel, next frame jumps 3 pixels |
| 12:39 |
|
mr_lou |
Well I doubt you're curious enough to see that 270 mb file |
| 12:39 |
|
mr_lou |
Or...hmm.. |
| 12:39 |
|
mr_lou |
wait |
| 12:40 |
|
mr_lou |
Yes, 270 is right |
| 12:41 |
|
mr_lou |
Started an upload anyway. |
| 12:41 |
|
mr_lou |
2 mbit upstream here... yay |
| 12:41 |
|
aditsu |
that's somewhat big, but up to you |
| 12:41 |
|
mr_lou |
It's from the project. |
| 12:41 |
|
aditsu |
why don't you just cut a piece? |
| 12:42 |
|
mr_lou |
Too lazy. |
| 12:42 |
|
mr_lou |
When gotta wait till it's reencoded etc.... |
| 12:42 |
|
mr_lou |
*Then |
| 12:42 |
|
* mr_lou |
is in bed with the flu |
| 12:42 |
|
aditsu |
there shouldn't be any reencoding |
| 12:42 |
|
mr_lou |
What tool do you use to cut a video without re-encoding? |
| 12:43 |
|
aditsu |
ffmpeg |
| 12:43 |
|
mr_lou |
Hm |
| 12:43 |
|
aditsu |
with -c copy |
| 12:47 |
|
mr_lou |
Well, that didn't work. https://vollnixx.wordpress.com/2012/06/01/howto-cut-a-video-directly-with-ffmpeg-without-transcoding/ |
| 12:47 |
|
mr_lou |
VLC won't play the resulting video. |
| 12:47 |
|
mr_lou |
Probably has to do with the m2ts format. |
| 12:49 |
|
aditsu |
well, then you can give me the whole file if you want |
| 12:50 |
|
mr_lou |
It's uploading. |
| 12:50 |
|
mr_lou |
For whatever reason you're curious. |
| 13:03 |
|
mr_lou |
aditsu, Should be here now: http://www.8bitMemoirs.com/00825.m2ts |
| 13:03 |
|
mr_lou |
Start in the middle of it. Notice the scrolltext. |
| 13:04 |
|
aditsu |
403 forbidden |
| 13:04 |
|
mr_lou |
dammit |
| 13:05 |
|
mr_lou |
What about now? |
| 13:05 |
|
aditsu |
better |
| 13:06 |
|
aditsu |
eta about 17 min |
| 13:06 |
|
aditsu |
getting slower :/ |
| 13:22 |
|
mr_lou |
Teh internetz sucks..... |
| 13:24 |
|
mr_lou |
That's why 8-bit Memoris is a wonderful offline thing. :-) |
| 13:36 |
|
aditsu |
got it, hmm, smplayer is having some issues with seeking |
| 13:37 |
|
aditsu |
ok, it works with vlc |
| 13:39 |
|
aditsu |
I don't know if it can go frame by frame though.. |
| 13:43 |
|
aditsu |
managed to play it in smplayer; seems to be a smooth video, but the text is scrolling fast, and I wonder if it's skipping any frames due to resource usage |
| 13:44 |
|
aditsu |
mpv is eating all the cpu like no tomorrow |
| 13:48 |
|
aditsu |
let me see if I can get any gpu acceleration.. |
| 13:49 |
|
aditsu |
guess I should enable vdpau and recompile stuff |
| 13:54 |
|
aditsu |
there's also vaapi.. |
| 13:55 |
|
aditsu |
and xvmc |
| 14:19 |
|
aditsu |
ok, so I did all that, but it's still quite cpu-intensive, maybe I need to restart X |
| 14:20 |
|
aditsu |
anyway, I suspect it's dropping frames due to cpu usage, which leads to the jerkiness |
| 14:23 |
|
aditsu |
oh wait, I got it to play nicely in smplayer |
| 14:24 |
|
aditsu |
mr_lou: it only uses about 11% cpu now, and the scrolling is pretty smooth |
| 14:26 |
|
mr_lou |
It shouldn't use that much CPU. It's pretty lightly encoded. |
| 14:27 |
|
mr_lou |
The scroll is "jerky" - but you may not notice that when you're not used to the real thing. |
| 14:27 |
|
mr_lou |
Depends of course what the refresh rate of your monitor is. I'm just assuming it's 60 hz like most others |
| 14:27 |
|
aditsu |
I guess it's not really perfect, but way better than those youtube videos |
| 14:36 |
|
mr_lou |
I wouldn't say "way better". Slightly perhabs. |
| 14:36 |
|
mr_lou |
Now go download 8-bit Memoirs, and burn the ISO to a Blu-ray disc and watch. ;-) |
| 14:40 |
|
aditsu |
I don't have a blu-ray drive, and even if I had, I would still watch it on the same monitor, probably using the same drivers to decode and render the video :p |
| 14:43 |
|
mr_lou |
If you can set your monitor to 50hz or 100hz, ithen it should also give an awesome result. |
| 14:44 |
|
mr_lou |
It's not about the drivers. |
| 14:44 |
|
aditsu |
yeah.. that was the next question, I don't know if it supports that (if it does, then I could just check your video, no need for blu-ray) |
| 14:48 |
|
aditsu |
ok this is pretty wild: http://dpaste.com/23M5XB3 |
| 14:50 |
|
aditsu |
it can do 75, but that's also not ideal |
| 14:51 |
|
aditsu |
plus non-native resolutions will affect the image quality |
| 14:53 |
|
aditsu |
and at 720p it only does 60hz |
| 14:54 |
|
mr_lou |
I have two screens connected to my PC, and one of them supports 50 hz... so I could do xrandr -r 50 and that was it. Looks awesome now (on that screen, not the other one). |
| 14:54 |
|
mr_lou |
See the problem is that most PC monitors simply don't support 50 hz. |
| 14:55 |
|
mr_lou |
The one screen of mine that does support it - is my TV. |
| 14:55 |
|
aditsu |
I have 2 monitors on another computer, but it's running windoze |
| 14:56 |
|
aditsu |
let me check my laptop too.. |
| 14:57 |
|
aditsu |
nope |
| 15:10 |
|
mr_lou |
So.... in my conclusion.... Blu-ray was the right platform. |
| 15:13 |
|
aditsu |
I won't dispute that :p |
| 15:14 |
|
mr_lou |
There's been a handful of people complaining about that choice. |
| 15:14 |
|
mr_lou |
People like to complain. |
| 15:15 |
|
mr_lou |
"Here, have my 5 year hard work for free" |
| 15:15 |
|
mr_lou |
"But it's not how I want it!" |
| 15:15 |
|
aditsu |
I guess it would be nice to write a program to do the scrolling at different rates and compare, but I don't feel like doing it myself |
| 15:15 |
|
mr_lou |
You mean change the framerate of the videos depending on refreshrate. |
| 15:15 |
|
mr_lou |
Then it would go much faster. |
| 15:16 |
|
mr_lou |
And not give an accurate representation again. |
| 15:16 |
|
aditsu |
no no, just programmatically scroll some text |
| 15:16 |
|
aditsu |
no video file |
| 15:16 |
|
mr_lou |
Not possible here. This is videos recorded from old computers. |
| 15:16 |
|
aditsu |
no, just put some text on the screen, and move it every 1/x seconds |
| 15:17 |
|
mr_lou |
Wouldn't work for my project. |
| 15:18 |
|
mr_lou |
aditsu, You don't have a Blu-ray player at all? No PlayStation 3 or 4 or Xbox One? Or one of those TV boxes? |
| 15:18 |
|
aditsu |
not for your project, just for testing the refresh rate issue |
| 15:18 |
|
mr_lou |
How about Kodi on a RasBerry Pi or Nvidia Shield? |
| 15:18 |
|
mr_lou |
There are (hidden) Blu-ray players everywhere. |
| 15:19 |
|
aditsu |
nope, nope, nope, nope, nope, nope, oh, I have 2 raspberry pis |
| 15:19 |
|
mr_lou |
Ah |
| 15:19 |
|
mr_lou |
Well, they can be setup with Kodi. But only v18 handles Blu-ray, and v18 isn't out yet, but soon. |
| 15:20 |
|
aditsu |
and what would be the point? |
| 15:21 |
|
mr_lou |
Why does people have media centers? |
| 15:21 |
|
mr_lou |
dunno |
| 15:21 |
|
mr_lou |
I never understood that part about having all movies on a harddisk. |
| 15:21 |
|
aditsu |
what can kodi do on a pi that I can't do on my computer? |
| 15:21 |
|
mr_lou |
I prefer having the physical media. |
| 15:21 |
|
aditsu |
I have most movies on dvds |
| 15:21 |
|
mr_lou |
Well the point is that you don't wanna hook up your computer in the livingroom. |
| 15:21 |
|
mr_lou |
A Pi is also just a computer, but tiny. |
| 15:22 |
|
aditsu |
(well, regular movies) |
| 15:22 |
|
mr_lou |
I really enjoy Blu-ray discs. |
| 15:22 |
|
mr_lou |
Was watching Blu-ray Runner 2049 the other day.... got half way through then had to stop till next day. |
| 15:22 |
|
aditsu |
hook up to what? |
| 15:23 |
|
mr_lou |
Next day, I insert the movie, it asks if I wanna continue, I say yes, and that was it. No way this could have been done faster on any other media. Had it been netflix I'd have to wait till the Netflix app started etc. |
| 15:23 |
|
mr_lou |
Er... you odn't have a TV in your living-room? |
| 15:24 |
|
aditsu |
I wrote earlier: "I don't have a tv, nor a dvd playerjust monitor and dvd drive" |
| 15:25 |
|
mr_lou |
.....maybe you went out and bought one in the mean time? |
| 15:25 |
|
mr_lou |
Ok, so I don't have a great memory. I'm in bed with the flu. Gimme a break. |
| 15:25 |
|
mr_lou |
Grumpy old man you. |
| 15:26 |
|
mr_lou |
Why no TV? Just not interested? |
| 15:27 |
|
aditsu |
well, my wife insists on it :p |
| 15:27 |
|
aditsu |
thinks it is time-wasting and harmful |
| 15:28 |
|
mr_lou |
Well.. I gotta admit, we never watch public TV either. We only watch movies - when there's time. |
| 15:28 |
|
mr_lou |
Aired TV is boring, and the news is crap. |
| 15:29 |
|
mr_lou |
How I view the news: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9U4Ha9HQvMo |
| 15:29 |
|
aditsu |
so I watch ridiculous amounts of youtube clips instead |
| 15:31 |
|
mr_lou |
hehe |
| 15:31 |
|
mr_lou |
No where near as harmfull....... |
| 15:33 |
|
mr_lou |
But mainstream media sucks. |
| 15:34 |
|
aditsu |
haha, that clips is great |
| 15:34 |
|
aditsu |
clip* |
| 15:34 |
|
mr_lou |
:-) |
| 15:36 |
|
aditsu |
I think it's referring to US media, is it similar in Denmark? |
| 15:37 |
|
aditsu |
oh, old video - it mentions emails rather than tweets :p |
| 15:39 |
|
mr_lou |
:-) |
| 15:39 |
|
mr_lou |
Danish media isn't much better. |
| 15:39 |
|
mr_lou |
They get caught lying, and there are no consequences. |
| 15:40 |
|
mr_lou |
It's fine to delude the public. |
| 16:18 |
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