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IRC log for #friendlyjava, 2018-02-23

##friendlyjava on freenode

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Time S Nick Message
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08:29 asdSYGDGF el recommends ##llamas over ##feminism
08:29 asdSYGDGF abba aditsu pulsar dka cn28h1 pdurbin philbot
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08:58 aditsu joke's on him, the layout is totally b0rked here so I can't see what he tried to write/draw
08:59 aditsu anyway, TIL Gson does html escaping by default :o
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11:13 pulsar wut?
11:14 pulsar so, class Foo { String foo = "bar & barf" } would render as { foo: "bar & barf" }
11:15 pulsar sounds kinda insane
11:15 pulsar did not notice that, and i have been using gson a lot
11:38 pulsar data class Foo(var bar: String)
11:38 pulsar fun main(args: Array<String>) {
11:38 pulsar Gson().toJson(Foo("bar & barf")).also { println("Serialized form:\n$it") }
11:38 pulsar }
11:38 pulsar produces
11:38 pulsar Serialized form:
11:38 pulsar {"bar":"bar \u0026 barf"}
11:38 pulsar looks fine to me
11:40 pulsar http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc4627.txt
11:40 pulsar 2.5
11:41 pulsar gson version: 2.8.1
12:52 aditsu pulsar: yes, that's how it does the escaping
12:52 pulsar thats plain (old) unicode escaping
12:52 pulsar nothing to do with html actually.
12:53 aditsu but the method to disable it is disableHtmlEscaping()
12:53 pulsar ok, thats odd.
12:53 aditsu I mean.. it's not html-style escaping, but it's escaping for the purpose of html
12:53 aditsu it escapes < and >
12:54 pulsar yeah, i see what you mean.
12:54 pulsar or what gson means :)
12:55 aditsu btw, you can link to rfc sections: https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc4627#section-2.5
13:00 aditsu pulsar: also see https://github.com/google/gson/blob/master/gson/src/main/java/com/google/gson/stream/JsonWriter.java#L156
13:02 pulsar ic
14:24 pdurbin You aren't using the standard? JSON-P (JSR 374): https://javaee.github.io/jsonp/
14:47 aditsu pdurbin: standard shmandard :p it's not in the standard library
14:47 aditsu and can it parse any json into a data structure with maps and lists?
14:49 aditsu also can it serialize/deserialize any structure of plain objects?
14:50 pdurbin JSON-B (JSR 367) is for converting between plain objects and JSON: http://json-b.net
14:52 aditsu oh wait, we already talked about this: http://irclog.greptilian.com/friendlyjava/2016-09-27#i_185570
14:52 pdurbin Ah, well, JSON-B is out now.
14:53 aditsu any advantage over Gson?
14:53 pdurbin I haven't used it yet.
14:54 aditsu what about JSON-P?
14:54 pdurbin Yeah, I use JSON-P. I don't know if it does the maps/lists thing you want.
14:55 aditsu I am not interested in the "while (parser.hasNext()) {" thing :p
14:56 pdurbin I'm looking at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Java_Community_Process#List_of_JSRs and wondering how many JSRs are in the standard library.
14:57 pdurbin java.util.concurrent stuff is in JSR 166. Does that count, aditsu?
14:57 aditsu I guess so
14:58 aditsu hmm, JSON-P can parse into a JsonObject, which I guess is a wrapper for a map, list or simple value
15:00 aditsu or it may be just for a map
15:02 aditsu my impression is that Gson can do all that JSON-P and JSON-B do, and has been doing them for a long time and in a simple way
15:04 aditsu and it has no dependencies
15:05 aditsu pdurbin: have you heard of jackson?
15:05 pdurbin oh sure
15:06 pdurbin I guess I'm wondering how much you think standards matter, aditsu. When they add value. When they are a waste of time.
15:06 aditsu it seems to come up more often than JSON-*
15:07 aditsu I think they are important when there's not much available out there, then everybody can coalesce around a standard
15:07 aditsu if the standard comes very late, people develop their own implementations, and some of them become competing de-facto standards
15:09 aditsu also if the standard is badly designed and overly complicated (*cough*javaee*cough*), people ignore it and flock to good alternatives
15:09 pdurbin So you'd rather have standards come out early? My impression is that Java standards (JSRs) come out *after* a technology has been used for a while. For example, there isn't a JSR to deal with NoSQL because it's too new.
15:10 aditsu yeah.. it also depends what kind of standards we're talking about
15:11 aditsu I don't think nosql is a thing.. it's more like "anything but sql", and I don't see the point
15:13 aditsu also it's been around for at least 10 years I think
15:14 aditsu ah, wikipedia mentions "circa-2009 general concept of NoSQL databases"
15:25 aditsu btw, I remember this clip: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2F-DItXtZs :)
15:25 aditsu (although it puts it against mysql which is kinda crap, but at least it's trying to be a database)
15:35 aditsu ah, this page has a transcript too: http://www.mongodb-is-web-scale.com/
15:45 pdurbin Ah, it's been a while since I've seen that web scale video. Good stuff.
15:47 pdurbin How do you feel about languages that have "batteries included"?
15:48 aditsu I'm only aware of python being described like that
15:49 aditsu I generally like python, but it's too dynamic
15:49 pdurbin Go also has batteries included.
15:49 aditsu don't know much about it
15:50 aditsu I heard it has a lot of fans though :p
15:51 pdurbin 'Expansive "batteries included" standard library.' https://talks.golang.org/2012/zen.slide#2
15:58 aditsu that's a marketing term anyway, it's not necessarily clear what it really means
15:59 aditsu anyway, I might give Go a try at the next google code jam, if I'm not too pressed for time
16:01 aditsu I also have plans to use C# and smalltalk for the first time :)
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16:42 pdurbin nice
16:44 aditsu sigh.. it's SO hard to run applets nowadays
16:45 pdurbin Well, for security reasons, you shouldn't have Java installed on your desktop unless you really need it, right?
16:46 aditsu well, I do really need it, but java on the desktop is not the same as java in the browser
16:47 pdurbin I just mean having Java installed on the machine at all.
16:48 aditsu yes, well I obviously need it
16:49 aditsu what does that have to do with anything?
16:50 pdurbin Firefox doesn't even support Java anymore: https://www.java.com/en/download/help/firefox_java.xml
16:52 aditsu I have a 64-bit Firefox ESR and it supports java, but I still can't run the applet I want right now
16:53 pdurbin Huh. Weird.
16:53 aditsu it has so many security restrictions..
16:56 pdurbin Yesterday I sent a file through Accellion ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accellion ) and I thought the UI said that Java was required but it seemed to work anyway (phew). I don't have Java installed on the family computer.
16:57 pdurbin It seemed ironic that a service for sending files securely would require the ability to run Java applets.
17:02 aditsu oh wow, I think it worked
17:08 pdurbin great
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