| Time |
S |
Nick |
Message |
| 05:52 |
|
mr_lou |
Classic #java. |
| 05:52 |
|
mr_lou |
<G3nka1> is it required that I have else after else if in java? |
| 05:52 |
|
mr_lou |
<surial> G3nka1: No. You should generally just try this stuff, and not ask here. |
| 05:52 |
|
mr_lou |
<G3nka1> right sorry surial |
| 05:52 |
|
mr_lou |
<mr_lou> surial, THat's not how you respond to a question like that. |
| 05:52 |
|
mr_lou |
This is: |
| 05:52 |
|
mr_lou |
<mr_lou> G3nka1, If you use if you can have else after if, or else you can have else if after if, but if you want you can also have else after else if. |
| 05:52 |
|
mr_lou |
<surial> mr_lou: Ever heard the maxim 'teach a person to fish'? |
| 05:52 |
|
mr_lou |
<surial> mr_lou: THere's such a thing as didactics. Don't presume you're smarter than I am or that you get to tell me what to do, jackass. |
| 05:53 |
|
mr_lou |
<mr_lou> surial, Ever heard of having a little fun? |
| 05:53 |
|
mr_lou |
Could do you good, it appears. |
| 05:53 |
|
mr_lou |
<surial> Your humor is deplorably bad. I suggest you stick to your day job. |
| 05:53 |
|
mr_lou |
<mr_lou> But my mood is great. ;-) |
| 05:53 |
|
mr_lou |
Must suck being in a shitty mood all the time. |
| 06:04 |
|
aditsu |
mr_lou: yeah.. I try not to think about that stuff too much, and stay positive |
| 06:05 |
|
mr_lou |
Yea... but we really ought to be in ##java and tell people about ##friendlyjava |
| 06:06 |
|
aditsu |
sad thing is.. I was becoming like them before I left |
| 06:06 |
|
mr_lou |
One can lose interest in Java all together just from a single visit in that shithole. |
| 06:06 |
|
mr_lou |
People in ##java has completely lost the passion for Java I'm sure. |
| 06:08 |
|
mr_lou |
This channel could grow. Be full of friendly people. |
| 06:08 |
|
aditsu |
I don't know about that, there's just this culture that reinforces certain strict rules and putting down people who "break" them |
| 06:09 |
|
aditsu |
I kinda decided to never go back in there, but you might be able to change my mind :p |
| 06:09 |
|
mr_lou |
I did too.;-) |
| 06:13 |
|
aditsu |
btw, "I don't know about that" was referring to people losing the passion for java, not about this channel being full of friendly people :) |
| 06:15 |
|
mr_lou |
I know people. If someone gets an interest for something, but it met with nothing but resistance from people like that, one will lose interest again. Or at least many will. |
| 06:15 |
|
mr_lou |
Java should be a fun and interesting experience. |
| 06:15 |
|
aditsu |
oh, if you mean newcomers, then yeah that's possible |
| 06:16 |
|
mr_lou |
Well yes. |
| 06:16 |
|
mr_lou |
When I experienced the attitude in ##java I already had other experiences with JAva, so |
| 06:17 |
|
mr_lou |
while it was very discouraging, it didn't knock me out. |
| 06:17 |
|
mr_lou |
But I'm sure it knocks out others. |
| 06:17 |
|
mr_lou |
And that's a shame. |
| 06:17 |
|
mr_lou |
These guys prevent good people from joining the Java ranks. |
| 06:17 |
|
mr_lou |
...in my view. |
| 06:17 |
|
aditsu |
one guy I used to work for had a theory that the community follows the style/strictness of the language |
| 06:18 |
|
mr_lou |
That way the majority of JAva dudes will always be arrogant pricks. |
| 06:18 |
|
aditsu |
he found that people in a python channel were much more laid back :p |
| 06:18 |
|
mr_lou |
haha |
| 06:18 |
|
mr_lou |
I've never had a chance to look into Python. But I don't seek to learn new languages either. |
| 06:19 |
|
mr_lou |
I don't have the brain capacity to keep track of more than one or two languages. ;-) |
| 06:19 |
|
aditsu |
really? python is a nice language, just a bit too dynamic maybe |
| 06:19 |
|
mr_lou |
Java was chosen for me by the school I attended. |
| 06:19 |
|
mr_lou |
Coming from BASIC, I didn't like Java at all at first. |
| 06:19 |
|
mr_lou |
But I've grown to love it. |
| 06:20 |
|
mr_lou |
Would wish I could use Java for everything. |
| 06:20 |
|
mr_lou |
I do know PHP too, but I don't really like it. |
| 06:20 |
|
mr_lou |
I think it's an ugly language. Its only advantage is that you can do almost anything with it. |
| 06:22 |
|
mr_lou |
I had a brief interest in Python at one time - because I found out it existed for the Amiga too. :-> |
| 06:24 |
|
aditsu |
I like trying different languages, e.g. at the google code jam |
| 06:25 |
|
mr_lou |
I just don't have the surplus for it. |
| 06:25 |
|
mr_lou |
Whenever I have some free time I'd rather work on some project using languages I know, rather than spending the valuable time learning a new language. |
| 06:28 |
|
mr_lou |
My language is JAva - but I like to try different PLATFORMS that runs JAva. :-) |
| 06:28 |
|
mr_lou |
Like cellphones and Blu-ray :-D |
| 06:28 |
|
mr_lou |
Would also like to try office equipment |
| 06:28 |
|
mr_lou |
and see an example of JAvacard code. |
| 06:29 |
|
mr_lou |
Ironically I haven't done a whole lot of desktop java yet. It's just not that interesting. |
| 06:30 |
|
aditsu |
heh, I guess I'm the opposite :p |
| 06:33 |
|
mr_lou |
Yea.... I wanna explore Java development on different platforms. You wanna explore desktop development with different languages? ;-) |
| 06:33 |
|
mr_lou |
Or.... web? |
| 06:33 |
|
* mr_lou |
don't like web much |
| 06:35 |
|
aditsu |
I'm mainly interested in web, desktop and client/server stuff, including databases, networking, GUIs, etc. |
| 06:35 |
|
CatButts |
web is bloated behemot |
| 06:35 |
|
CatButts |
h |
| 06:36 |
|
aditsu |
all running on computers, and maybe a little interest in android, where web stuff is not good enough |
| 06:37 |
|
aditsu |
don't really care about other platforms |
| 06:38 |
|
aditsu |
also I'm not actively using other languages (except CJam for small tasks), but I like trying out some of them |
| 06:39 |
|
aditsu |
and I know a few relatively well |
| 06:39 |
|
mr_lou |
Morning CatWomanButts. |
| 06:40 |
|
mr_lou |
I know BASIC on the Amstrad CPC! \o/ |
| 06:40 |
|
mr_lou |
And GW-Basic and QBasic. Even tried a little Amiga Basic! :-> |
| 06:40 |
|
aditsu |
I recently learned a little Smalltalk |
| 06:41 |
|
mr_lou |
I also have a little C experience, but only ever used it for Amstrad CPC retro game development. :-) |
| 06:41 |
|
mr_lou |
Then of course HTML, CSS and Javascript. |
| 06:42 |
|
mr_lou |
Genereally speaking I think people are WAY too busy inventing new languages. |
| 06:44 |
|
aditsu |
I get that feeling in the code golf community :p but not in general |
| 06:44 |
|
mr_lou |
My brother loves new stuff in programming languages. |
| 06:44 |
|
mr_lou |
I don't. |
| 06:45 |
|
mr_lou |
I never use new stuff - because I know with certainty that I'll dig up some old device somewhere and just get hooked on trying to run a Java app on it - and there's no chance it'll ever run any NEW Java app... so I always stick with older API's. |
| 06:45 |
|
CatButts |
minimalism! |
| 06:45 |
|
mr_lou |
Like the time I found an IRC client made in Java. I had to edit it to make it run on Java 1.3 to that it ran on my Ericsson MC218 pocket computer. :-) |
| 06:46 |
|
mr_lou |
Now THAT's geeky! |
| 06:46 |
|
aditsu |
new stuff can be much more concise and pleasant |
| 06:46 |
|
mr_lou |
Embrace the old devices I say! |
| 06:46 |
|
mr_lou |
aditsu, Not when it doesn't run where you want it to run. Then it just becomes annoying. |
| 06:47 |
|
mr_lou |
Unless of course it compiles to older versions..... and thus produces bytecode that is compatible with old API's. |
| 06:47 |
|
* CatButts |
cautiously embraces the AWT |
| 06:47 |
|
mr_lou |
I still have my Ericsson MC218, and there still hasn't been produced a device ever since that beats it. HP tried with their Journada devices, but no. |
| 06:47 |
|
CatButts |
what OS is that? |
| 06:48 |
|
CatButts |
for the Ericsson |
| 06:48 |
|
aditsu |
I don't have that problem though :) except when people adopt the latest java version too quickly, before I switch to it on my machines |
| 06:48 |
|
mr_lou |
Ericsson MC218 is just like the Psion 5MX |
| 06:48 |
|
mr_lou |
It runs Epoc |
| 06:48 |
|
mr_lou |
The predecessor to Symbian |
| 06:48 |
|
mr_lou |
And someone made a JVM for it. :-> |
| 06:49 |
|
mr_lou |
Awesome. |
| 06:49 |
|
mr_lou |
This was when I joined ##java to ask for help when I needed to port back the IRC client to something that worked. |
| 06:49 |
|
mr_lou |
Big mistake. |
| 06:49 |
|
aditsu |
haha |
| 06:50 |
|
mr_lou |
Like 17 years ago now or so..... funny that nothing has changed. |
| 06:50 |
|
mr_lou |
"funny" |
| 06:51 |
|
aditsu |
mr_lou: so what do you do for work? |
| 06:51 |
|
mr_lou |
I'm a system developer. |
| 06:51 |
|
mr_lou |
Mainly doing webstuff. |
| 06:51 |
|
mr_lou |
Doesn't mean I like it. ;-) |
| 06:51 |
|
mr_lou |
Would much rather have worked with Java, but no such luck. |
| 06:52 |
|
aditsu |
what language? |
| 06:52 |
|
mr_lou |
PHP |
| 06:52 |
|
aditsu |
oh, sorry to hear that |
| 06:52 |
|
mr_lou |
Well I do create a few Java apps, but just very small ones. |
| 06:52 |
|
mr_lou |
yea |
| 06:52 |
|
mr_lou |
Well it could be worse. |
| 06:52 |
|
mr_lou |
At least I get to decide a lot myself. |
| 06:55 |
|
mr_lou |
And I've gotten to create 2 bigger systems that I always wanted to. |
| 06:55 |
|
mr_lou |
First a CMS the create websites in. Still being used for our customers websites. |
| 06:56 |
|
mr_lou |
Next, I got to create the whole system we use at work to maintain customers, tasks, time-registration, shopping etc etc etc.... everything. |
| 06:56 |
|
mr_lou |
Can spew out any kind of statistics. |
| 07:00 |
|
mr_lou |
Meanwhile I'm Mr.Flu on day 7. I can't believe how long this is taking. :-( |
| 07:26 |
|
CatButts |
hey guys, if I have array of int |
| 07:27 |
|
CatButts |
int[] or int[][] |
| 07:27 |
|
CatButts |
how would I go about outputting its data to display in AWT |
| 07:27 |
|
CatButts |
maybe int arrays are not the type appropiate here |
| 07:27 |
|
aditsu |
if you want to convert to string, you can use Arrays.toString for int[] |
| 07:27 |
|
CatButts |
but it's the one I'd work with |
| 07:28 |
|
CatButts |
no, no |
| 07:28 |
|
aditsu |
or do you want a table? |
| 07:28 |
|
CatButts |
not string |
| 07:28 |
|
CatButts |
sorry |
| 07:28 |
|
aditsu |
or list |
| 07:28 |
|
CatButts |
output as image |
| 07:28 |
|
aditsu |
oh, are they pixels? use BufferedImage |
| 07:28 |
|
CatButts |
that is, the array contains ARGB values |
| 07:29 |
|
CatButts |
does BufferedImage type expose arrays I can manipulate directly? |
| 07:29 |
|
CatButts |
say, arrays of ints |
| 07:29 |
|
aditsu |
not directly, but there are some ways, let me check |
| 07:30 |
|
CatButts |
basically, I want the shortest path from int[] to computer's display :p |
| 07:31 |
|
aditsu |
check out this answer: https://stackoverflow.com/a/9396487/179864 |
| 07:32 |
|
CatButts |
hmmm |
| 07:32 |
|
aditsu |
so it looks like you can get an array you can manipulate directly, you just need to make sure you use the right image type and data representation |
| 07:33 |
|
CatButts |
so the array I get, is a reference to BufferedImage's guts? |
| 07:33 |
|
CatButts |
or is it a copy of the data |
| 07:34 |
|
aditsu |
I think it's the guts |
| 07:34 |
|
CatButts |
BIG GUTS |
| 07:34 |
|
CatButts |
RIP AND TEAR |
| 07:35 |
|
CatButts |
good then |
| 07:36 |
|
aditsu |
well, internally, it might be a copy of the data that actually resides in video memory, but then it should track any changes you make, so that it's transparent to you |
| 07:38 |
|
CatButts |
so if this were C, I'd get a pointer to BufferedImage and work directly on the array of ints |
| 07:38 |
|
CatButts |
errr |
| 07:38 |
|
CatButts |
*I'd get a pointer to BufferedImage's data[] |
| 07:39 |
|
aditsu |
in java you get a reference, almost the same thing :p |
| 07:40 |
|
aditsu |
BufferedImage can use different data representations depending on the image type you select |
| 07:40 |
|
CatButts |
so as long as I don't have to copy shitloads of data back and forth, I'm good to go |
| 07:41 |
|
aditsu |
well, try it out |
| 07:41 |
|
* CatButts |
gets off his bum |
| 07:55 |
|
mr_lou |
Isn't the a drawRGB? |
| 07:57 |
|
mr_lou |
*there |
| 07:57 |
|
mr_lou |
Sounds to me like the simplest way of manipulating an array, and simply drawing all of it afterwards. |
| 08:04 |
|
aditsu |
mr_lou: drawRGB? where? |
| 08:05 |
|
mr_lou |
AWT? |
| 08:05 |
|
mr_lou |
Canvas |
| 08:06 |
|
aditsu |
I don't think so |
| 08:06 |
|
mr_lou |
Aah no, that's just for MIDP apparently. |
| 08:06 |
|
mr_lou |
But I got another one! |
| 08:06 |
|
mr_lou |
CatButts, |
| 08:07 |
|
mr_lou |
java.awt.image.MemoryImageSource |
| 08:07 |
|
mr_lou |
"This class is an implementation of the ImageProducer interface which uses an array to produce pixel values for an Image." |
| 08:08 |
|
CatButts |
so before I pick one and stick with it, I also need to consider speed |
| 08:09 |
|
mr_lou |
Lemme show you a jar I made for fun, using MemoryImageSource |
| 08:13 |
|
mr_lou |
http://www.dewfall.dk/Colours3.jar |
| 08:13 |
|
mr_lou |
ALT+F4 to close. |
| 08:14 |
|
CatButts |
cute |
| 08:14 |
|
CatButts |
plasma |
| 08:15 |
|
CatButts |
my Remote Desktop session didn't enjoy it as much, though |
| 08:15 |
|
mr_lou |
:-) |
| 08:15 |
|
CatButts |
it's quite heavy on the CPU |
| 08:15 |
|
mr_lou |
Yes |
| 08:16 |
|
* CatButts |
picks it apart with a decompiler |
| 08:16 |
|
mr_lou |
Of course you do. |
| 08:17 |
|
mr_lou |
It also uses color-cycle via IndexColorModel |
| 08:17 |
|
mr_lou |
Now IndexColorModel would have been NICE to have for MIDP. |
| 08:20 |
|
CatButts |
damnit, I need to organize my tools |
| 08:20 |
|
CatButts |
they are all over the place |
| 08:26 |
|
CatButts |
I assume Colours() is ran once a frame, yes? |
| 08:30 |
|
CatButts |
I'd move any instantiations outside loops, and even outside Colours() |
| 08:31 |
|
mr_lou |
It's been quite some time since I made it, I can't remember. |
| 08:31 |
|
|
kirua joined ##friendlyjava |
| 08:43 |
|
CatButts |
doing some reading, BufferedImage is prefered |
| 08:44 |
|
CatButts |
to MemoryImageSource |
| 08:44 |
|
CatButts |
oh, but here's the thing |
| 08:45 |
|
mr_lou |
Faster? |
| 08:45 |
|
CatButts |
yes |
| 08:45 |
|
mr_lou |
mkay |
| 08:46 |
|
CatButts |
1. the area containing the image data won't be the same as the one being drawn to |
| 08:46 |
|
CatButts |
2. layers, and zoom levels |
| 08:47 |
|
CatButts |
the int[] approach I have in mind would have me write all the mixing code |
| 08:48 |
|
CatButts |
mixing/render |
| 08:55 |
|
CatButts |
my head is full of fuck trying to put it all together |
| 08:57 |
|
CatButts |
I mean, I could well do my manual, itterative mixing of things |
| 08:58 |
|
CatButts |
but it probably would be slow |
| 08:58 |
|
CatButts |
compared to say, using java API to do things for you |
| 08:59 |
|
CatButts |
let's say a scenario of what gets mixed |
| 09:00 |
|
CatButts |
you have canvas with multiple layers |
| 09:00 |
|
CatButts |
rgba |
| 09:00 |
|
CatButts |
each layer has a mode and an alpha |
| 09:00 |
|
CatButts |
mode can be normal, multiply, etc. |
| 09:01 |
|
CatButts |
alpha is the layer's global transparency |
| 09:02 |
|
CatButts |
then you have zooms by fixed factors |
| 09:02 |
|
CatButts |
zoom in involves duplicating pixels |
| 09:02 |
|
CatButts |
zoom out interpolates pixels |
| 09:11 |
|
CatButts |
I can think of two ways of doing this |
| 09:12 |
|
CatButts |
1. mix layers at native res and resize final image |
| 09:13 |
|
CatButts |
2. resize each layer to a buffer and mix at resized res |
| 09:33 |
|
mr_lou |
I'm too tired in my head to understand any of what you just wrote. |
| 09:33 |
|
mr_lou |
Should probably rest. |
| 09:47 |
|
CatButts |
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/348544204072288257/391164162018902017/image.png |
| 11:15 |
|
CatButts |
https://gamedev.stackexchange.com/a/75667 |
| 11:15 |
|
CatButts |
this post presents some interesting points regarding BufferedImage |
| 11:16 |
|
CatButts |
especially the "managed" vs "unmanaged" |
| 11:16 |
|
* CatButts |
tries the thing on his phone |
| 11:18 |
|
aditsu |
CatButts: also see https://stackoverflow.com/questions/1260625/java-swing-graphics-color-blending |
| 11:25 |
|
CatButts |
hmmmm |
| 11:41 |
|
CatButts |
hey aditsu, there's something odd about that managed vs unmanaged code example |
| 11:41 |
|
CatButts |
the results are the opposite of what he's showing |
| 11:42 |
|
CatButts |
Managed being slower |
| 12:18 |
|
aditsu |
CatButts: you mean managed images? I don't know much about that |
| 12:18 |
|
CatButts |
I'll have to look at it when I get home |
| 12:19 |
|
aditsu |
http://www.jhlabs.com/ip/managed_images.html |
| 12:19 |
|
* mr_lou |
just watched "I don't feelo at home in the world anymore". |
| 12:19 |
|
mr_lou |
I could relate. |
| 12:22 |
|
CatButts |
sounds like fun! |
| 12:22 |
|
CatButts |
at this point, I would go in ##java and yell JAVAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA~! and get banned |
| 12:22 |
|
CatButts |
to vent frustrations |
| 12:23 |
|
CatButts |
but I already did that and am already banned :P |
| 12:29 |
|
CatButts |
everyone says that unmanaged is slower that managed, yet I happen to get opposite results |
| 12:29 |
|
CatButts |
*than |
| 12:29 |
|
CatButts |
I'll have to check out the test's innards |
| 12:48 |
|
pdurbin |
mr_lou: I had an Amiga too. |
| 12:50 |
|
mr_lou |
:-) Had? I still have one. :-) |
| 12:51 |
|
mr_lou |
No doubt some would say we have too many retro computers. |
| 13:09 |
|
pdurbin |
Last I checked, it's still in my parents' basement. I wrote a little about it (and Disney Animation Studio) at http://wiki.greptilian.com/krita |
| 13:46 |
|
CatButts |
cat |
| 14:47 |
|
CatButts |
http://cat.butt.care:3434/priv/BufferedImageTest.java |
| 14:47 |
|
CatButts |
I updated the test |
| 14:48 |
|
* CatButts |
throws test at phone |
| 14:53 |
|
CatButts |
lol |
| 14:53 |
|
CatButts |
this is hilarious |
| 14:56 |
|
CatButts |
let me check again |
| 14:58 |
|
CatButts |
right |
| 14:59 |
|
CatButts |
so, managed is faster than umanaged when hardware acceleration is available |
| 14:59 |
|
CatButts |
and viceversa |
| 15:00 |
|
CatButts |
on phone |
| 15:01 |
|
CatButts |
managed: 1100ms |
| 15:01 |
|
CatButts |
unmanaged: 2ms |
| 15:01 |
|
CatButts |
smaller res too |
| 15:01 |
|
CatButts |
on PC: |
| 15:02 |
|
CatButts |
managed: 0.5ms |
| 15:02 |
|
CatButts |
unmanaged: 329ms |
| 15:02 |
|
CatButts |
the same reversal occurs on PC with Remote Desktop |
| 15:03 |
|
CatButts |
solution? test unmanaged vs managed |
| 15:05 |
|
CatButts |
test at 60 iterations |
| 15:09 |
|
|
abba joined ##friendlyjava |
| 15:52 |
|
CatButts |
https://media.giphy.com/media/MibYWcCyIxIT6/giphy.gif I propose adding a faux-amiga decrunching screen to all Java applications for the sole purpose of testing BufferedImage in managed and unmanaged mode :P |
| 15:52 |
|
CatButts |
epileptics beware |
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pulsar |
powerpacker ftw |
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CatButts |
how does one embedd an applet in a html with only class file? |
| 23:46 |
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CatButts |
no jar |
| 23:47 |
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CatButts |
hmmm, optionally |
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CatButts |
https://docs.oracle.com/javase/8/docs/technotes/tools/windows/appletviewer.html |
| 23:48 |
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CatButts |
ah no, this is an external tool |
| 23:48 |
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CatButts |
no use to me here |
| 23:50 |
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CatButts |
<applet code="DrawingLines" width="200" height="200"/> |
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CatButts |
java.lang.reflect.InvocationTargetException |
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* CatButts |
removes subclass |
| 23:52 |
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CatButts |
nope, same thing |
| 23:54 |
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CatButts |
I guess I should ask ##java :P |
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CatButts |
I am aiming to do a dual applet+desktop class |
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CatButts |
*desktop app |
| 23:55 |
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CatButts |
because why not |
| 23:58 |
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CatButts |
ah no, I'd get ClassNotFound exception should I embedd poorly |
| 23:59 |
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aditsu |
one doesn't use applets |
