| Time |
S |
Nick |
Message |
| 02:16 |
|
|
anaderi joined ##friendlyjava |
| 02:16 |
|
anaderi |
hi |
| 02:17 |
|
aditsu |
anaderi: hi |
| 02:17 |
|
anaderi |
u do JavaFX? |
| 02:17 |
|
anaderi |
or GUI programming |
| 02:17 |
|
aditsu |
sometimes |
| 02:18 |
|
anaderi |
what frameworks do you use |
| 02:18 |
|
aditsu |
for GUI? I used to use Swing; more recently JavaFX |
| 02:19 |
|
anaderi |
oh, have you become familiar with the JavaFX APIs? |
| 02:19 |
|
aditsu |
a little bit |
| 02:19 |
|
anaderi |
I find that they dont scale for bigger apps |
| 02:19 |
|
anaderi |
For example, I was previously using dependency injection for everything |
| 02:20 |
|
anaderi |
Since JavaFX doesnt provide it out of the box |
| 02:20 |
|
anaderi |
But then I created this class called ViewController |
| 02:21 |
|
anaderi |
which is a paradigm I learned from iOS programming, and the code become pretty clean |
| 02:21 |
|
anaderi |
Dependency injection is kind of a problem because while people say it makes testing easier, I kinda disagree but that's a pretty big topic |
| 02:22 |
|
anaderi |
But the ViewController caused some slight problems that dependency injection solved |
| 02:22 |
|
anaderi |
So I'm trying to find the right balance there |
| 02:23 |
|
anaderi |
(Btw, the ViewController class is subclassed in *MOST* controllers) |
| 02:25 |
|
aditsu |
I'm not sure how I can help.. |
| 02:25 |
|
anaderi |
I was wondering if you encountered the same problems with Swing |
| 02:26 |
|
aditsu |
I haven't written any ViewController, and haven't done much DI |
| 02:26 |
|
anaderi |
why not, what did u use instead |
| 02:27 |
|
aditsu |
instead of what? |
| 02:32 |
|
anaderi |
talking between various components |
| 02:33 |
|
aditsu |
um.. some of my components talk to each other |
| 02:33 |
|
anaderi |
ok how did u do that |
| 02:33 |
|
anaderi |
u cant instantiate those components directly |
| 02:33 |
|
anaderi |
sometimes you can, sometimes u cant |
| 02:34 |
|
aditsu |
by passing references, mostly at construction; I guess that counts as a "natural" way of doing DI? |
| 02:34 |
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anaderi |
so you passed references in your contructors? |
| 02:35 |
|
aditsu |
in some cases, yes |
| 02:35 |
|
anaderi |
how did that go for you in testing |
| 02:35 |
|
aditsu |
fine, I ran the program and tested it :) |
| 02:36 |
|
anaderi |
but don't your components have references to buttons, textfields, etc? |
| 02:36 |
|
aditsu |
um.. yes, some of them |
| 02:37 |
|
anaderi |
but you are only passing references to other components in the constructor? |
| 02:38 |
|
anaderi |
How will the references to your buttons be fulfilled? |
| 02:38 |
|
aditsu |
well, if I create a "child" component, I pass the parent in the constructor, and the parent may keep references to children in the class fields |
| 02:39 |
|
anaderi |
but what if your "child" has buttons |
| 02:39 |
|
anaderi |
they parent doesnt have references to the child's buttons |
| 02:40 |
|
aditsu |
not sure why it would need references, but if really needed, I could obtain them from the child |
| 02:41 |
|
anaderi |
ok let's say u want to test this "child" |
| 02:41 |
|
anaderi |
it has a constructor with the parent |
| 02:41 |
|
anaderi |
how are you going to test that |
| 02:41 |
|
aditsu |
I usually test the whole program |
| 02:42 |
|
anaderi |
not the individual classes? |
| 02:42 |
|
aditsu |
I may test certain relevant features when running the program |
| 02:43 |
|
aditsu |
features implemented in those classes |
| 02:43 |
|
anaderi |
but you don't directly test your controllers, right? |
| 02:43 |
|
aditsu |
depends what you mean by "directly" |
| 02:44 |
|
anaderi |
like having a 1-1 relationship between a test class and a controller |
| 02:44 |
|
aditsu |
are you talking about isolated unit tests? |
| 02:44 |
|
anaderi |
yeah |
| 02:44 |
|
anaderi |
and you are talking about functional tests? |
| 02:44 |
|
aditsu |
I don't do that for GUI stuff |
| 02:44 |
|
anaderi |
Therein lies the problem I am trying to solve |
| 02:44 |
|
anaderi |
unit testing GUI apps |
| 02:45 |
|
anaderi |
not sure if it is reasonable |
| 02:45 |
|
aditsu |
pdurbin, pulsar: do you guys have any thoughts on this? |
| 02:46 |
|
aditsu |
I'm not that "big on" unit testing |
| 02:46 |
|
anaderi |
The thing is, I just noticed functional tests break every time the app changes |
| 02:46 |
|
anaderi |
It's one of the costs of functional tests |
| 02:47 |
|
anaderi |
And I've done unit tests before, they break less often |
| 02:47 |
|
anaderi |
I've found that if you unit test the expected "API" of certain classes, your unit tests rarely break |
| 02:48 |
|
anaderi |
But functional tests include the UI components themselves, which is not exactly the "API" |
| 02:48 |
|
aditsu |
I suppose you could write some mock classes.. but it can get hairy |
| 02:49 |
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anaderi |
Perhaps the problem is that controllers don't really have an API? |
| 02:49 |
|
anaderi |
I guess sometimes they do |
| 02:49 |
|
anaderi |
And you can assert on their UI objects |
| 02:50 |
|
anaderi |
So their API could be something like replaceOrAddTab(Tab tab) |
| 02:51 |
|
anaderi |
And you can assert with getTabPane.getTabs() |
| 02:51 |
|
anaderi |
But looking at my code, the majority of the time there is no API |
| 02:57 |
|
aditsu |
you can also check what others have to say: https://www.google.com.hk/search?q=unit+testing+gui |
| 02:59 |
|
anaderi |
Thanks, so far from reading the impression I am getting is to not test the controllers, only the "model" |
| 03:00 |
|
aditsu |
yeah, what you really want to test is the business logic, which should be separate |
| 03:03 |
|
anaderi |
idk man, looking at my code there's a lot more UI logic than business logic |
| 03:04 |
|
anaderi |
But the question is, does it make sense to test UI logic |
| 03:05 |
|
aditsu |
it might.. it depends on the application I guess, and it's not very easy to do |
| 03:06 |
|
aditsu |
btw, there are automated test tools for GUIs, they can click on buttons, type stuff, verify that it displays a certain thing, etc. |
| 03:07 |
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anaderi_ joined ##friendlyjava |
| 03:07 |
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anaderi_ |
got disconnected, did you say something? |
| 03:07 |
|
aditsu |
you can check the logs from the topic |
| 03:21 |
|
anaderi_ |
What's the command? Tried googling it but nothing came up |
| 03:22 |
|
aditsu |
um no, the channel has a topic that you should be able to see (a bunch of text beginning with "Be friendly") |
| 03:22 |
|
aditsu |
it includes a link to the logs |
| 03:22 |
|
aditsu |
but I can give it to you here - http://irclog.greptilian.com/friendlyjava/today |
| 03:23 |
|
anaderi_ |
ok thx |
| 03:24 |
|
aditsu |
if you want to use a command, try /topic |
| 03:27 |
|
pdurbin |
I assume unit testing GUIs is difficult. I haven't done it myself. |
| 03:28 |
|
anaderi_ |
how do I get the arguments for a command? /help topic didnt work |
| 03:30 |
|
aditsu |
you can find some info at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Internet_Relay_Chat_commands#TOPIC |
| 03:31 |
|
aditsu |
though those might be the actual protocol commands.. |
| 03:32 |
|
aditsu |
anyway, you can run it with no arguments to see the channel's topic |
| 03:34 |
|
aditsu |
pdurbin: that's what I suspected.. |
| 03:36 |
|
aditsu |
anyway, I gotta get some sleep, see ya |
| 03:37 |
|
anaderi_ |
cya |
| 03:37 |
|
anaderi_ |
not a channel operator :P |
| 03:38 |
|
anaderi_ |
that's the message when I used /topic |
| 06:32 |
|
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mr_lou joined ##friendlyjava |
| 06:42 |
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abba joined ##friendlyjava |
| 06:43 |
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anaderi_ |
hi |
| 09:12 |
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elcmat joined ##friendlyjava |
| 09:13 |
|
pulsar |
aditsu: it has been over 15 years i did some java swing stuff, and back then we did not gave s**** about end-to-end testing :) |
| 09:16 |
|
pulsar |
nowerdays tools like jasmine and protractor are defacto standard to do e2e ui testing. web technology based ui that is. |
| 09:18 |
|
pulsar |
and in my personal opinion: javafx is not going anywhere. it does not seem to pick up any momentum since years |
| 09:19 |
|
pulsar |
and everybody else and their grandmother is doing electron shell / javascript for gui apps. |
| 09:20 |
|
pulsar |
which funnily waste a lot of more resources than an average java fx/swing app would do. |
| 09:22 |
|
pulsar |
and suddenly all the js hipsters stop bitching and moaning about java memory & resource requirements when i mention the electron madness. peculiar. :D |
| 09:42 |
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elcmat joined ##friendlyjava |
| 10:40 |
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elcmat joined ##friendlyjava |
| 10:40 |
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elcmat joined ##friendlyjava |
| 10:55 |
|
aditsu |
elcmat: you get a message about not being an op if you try to change the topic |
| 10:55 |
|
elcmat |
aditsu ? |
| 10:55 |
|
aditsu |
elcmat: sorry, wrong person |
| 10:55 |
|
aditsu |
was meant for anaderi.. who is not here anymore |
| 10:58 |
|
aditsu |
pulsar: electron is an abomination, and it needs to die |
| 10:59 |
|
aditsu |
but yeah, java seems to get a bad rap, especially for the desktop.. |
| 11:01 |
|
aditsu |
which is too bad, because JavaFX is actually kinda nice, once you overcome the bugs |
| 11:29 |
|
elcmat |
ho |
| 11:30 |
|
elcmat |
i have quit java for now |
| 11:55 |
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elcmat_ joined ##friendlyjava |
| 11:59 |
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elcmat_ left ##friendlyjava |
| 15:03 |
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df0_ joined ##friendlyjava |
| 16:10 |
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aditsu joined ##friendlyjava |
| 18:23 |
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anaderi joined ##friendlyjava |
