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| 20:03 |
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| 20:03 |
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pdurbin_m |
Thoughts on JBoss EAP 7 Beta from an ex-GlassFish Product Manager ? Middle-Me: http://johnclingan.com/2016/01/18/thoughts-on-jboss-eap-7-beta-from-an-ex-glassfish-product-manager/ |
| 21:03 |
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sfisque |
aye, i've been trying to move some of my products over to swarm from standard war deployments |
| 21:20 |
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pulsar |
i have done a couple of microservices with srping-boot recently, any idea how that would compare to swarm when looking at the bloat-factor? |
| 21:21 |
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sfisque |
dunno. i'm just wanting to discard all the spring proprietary stuff and use a container that uses the standard mechs |
| 21:22 |
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sfisque |
spring… because…f**& standards |
| 21:22 |
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pulsar |
heh... yeah. i have been around spring when ejb was real PITA and spring actually called themselves "lightweight". |
| 21:23 |
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pulsar |
but i'll give them that: without spring, JEE would be a very different beast today. |
| 21:23 |
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sfisque |
except back in that day, they both suffered from xml-hell. ejb3 debuted pretty much around the time spring went to annotations, so even that is questionable |
| 21:24 |
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pulsar |
i will not argue against ejb3. |
| 21:24 |
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sfisque |
but yeah, ejb1 and ejb2 were pretty crummy |
| 21:25 |
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sfisque |
too much heavy lifting and not enough convenience |
| 21:26 |
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pulsar |
i hear you. having a breakpoint in a spring app and looking at the callstack still gives me nausea |
| 21:27 |
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pulsar |
but still, it is a hate-love relationship i have with spring. if you ignore all that bloat and do not care about standards that much, lt lets you get stuff done quite fast. |
| 21:28 |
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sfisque |
depends. i find with ee, i spend more time actually building code. with spring, i spend more time configuring their code because their "conventions" only work for toy apps and not real world solutions. |
| 21:29 |
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pulsar |
but that is not an issue of the framework but one which relates to the knowledge of the latter |
| 21:31 |
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sfisque |
again, standard versus "our way". i'll take standard so i can get back to work and not have to dig through tons of one-off discussions in blog entries |
| 21:32 |
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sfisque |
spring reminds me of "the ibm way". read the 39204234 page manual and you get to be the expert who charges tons of money, rather than just selling me a product that works the way i want it |
| 21:32 |
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pulsar |
i would call spring a defacto-standard, just different but similar in various areas to jee |
| 21:33 |
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pulsar |
and yeah, it requires you to understand lots of stuff how the framwork works internally - the alternative is to google mile long stacktraces all day. |
| 21:33 |
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pulsar |
on the other hand i always found the documentation for spring to be very pleasant to read |
| 21:34 |
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sfisque |
again, only for toy apps. i have found huge holes and contradictory statements throughout their docs. makes my eyeballs twitch |
| 21:34 |
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pulsar |
too many cooks. agree |
| 21:34 |
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pulsar |
chefs even. |
| 21:34 |
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sfisque |
lolz |
| 21:35 |
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pulsar |
and yet, > 50% of the projects i have done in the past 10 years were not spring ;) |
| 21:39 |
|
sfisque |
from what i have seen, spring is huge where "body mills" are prevalent (india, russia, china, etc.) in u.s. spring is often accepted because that's the code that comes in "from off shore", or it's enforced because they know the off-shore contract house has 342424234 devs who all know spring (and not much else) |
| 21:41 |
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pulsar |
dont get me started on this bs. never seen outsourcing of anything (spring included) to work out well. besides, you wont find spring on the blueprint in bigger companies over here anymore anway. |
| 21:41 |
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sfisque |
where you at pulsar? |
| 21:42 |
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pulsar |
munich |
| 21:43 |
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sfisque |
interesting. spring is still leveraged in big u.s. corps, but primarily because 145% of the work is off-shored :P |
| 21:43 |
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pulsar |
let me see... last 3 gigs were for Siemens and BMW. |
| 21:44 |
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pulsar |
no spring on the blueprint there anymore, at least for the divisions i have been working with |
| 21:44 |
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sfisque |
lucky you :-D |
| 21:44 |
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pulsar |
allianz might be still using spring iirc. |
| 21:44 |
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pulsar |
well... i am a freelancer, so i don't care that much :) my luck comes from the bill i write every month :) |
| 21:44 |
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sfisque |
wells fargo uses lots of spring, but then almost all of their dev is in hiderabad |
| 21:45 |
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pulsar |
i have 0 problems to use any tech as long it somewhat makes sense. |
| 21:45 |
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sfisque |
aye. i feel "kinda" same, but i prefer standard over proprietary. makes my life easier (less reading, more doing) |
| 21:46 |
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pulsar |
i think that keeping it open minded and pay attention to the approaches other farameworks took is very benefitial. and i have somewhat a problem with the definition of a standard |
| 21:47 |
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pulsar |
just because a bigger company / consortium said so? |
| 21:47 |
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pulsar |
not saying that standards are bad, just saying that other frameworks could/should be considered standards aswell when they have enough momentum or market share |
| 21:48 |
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pdurbin |
I thought thought the idea was that if you stick to standards, you can deploy your war file to either wildfly or glassfish or whatever. |
| 21:48 |
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sfisque |
that's part of it. |
| 21:48 |
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pulsar |
yeah... right :) |
| 21:48 |
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pdurbin |
so you're both using swarm and wildfly/jboss. I'm still using glassfish |
| 21:49 |
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sfisque |
another part of it is, maintainance. i shouldnt have to pour over archain manuals, just to maintain code |
| 21:49 |
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pulsar |
you made that point more than once, i understand. |
| 21:50 |
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sfisque |
:-D |
| 21:50 |
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pulsar |
i just don't agree :D |
| 21:52 |
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pdurbin |
maybe I should get with the times |
| 21:53 |
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pulsar |
like node.js? yeah... lets talk about standards there. the average halflife of any new framework seems to be ... dunno, 3 weeks? |
| 21:53 |
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pulsar |
and yes, i have been doing lots of that recently. |
| 21:56 |
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pulsar |
yet, it manages to get more and more relevant. as a dev environment for SPAs, desktop applications and perpahs one day on the server-side next to other defacto-standards such as java, python or ruby. |
| 21:57 |
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pdurbin |
pulsar: I'm with you on the "as long as it somewhat makes sense" |
| 21:57 |
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pulsar |
yeah, but thats because i am a whore and i enjoy writing code in any language. even JS :) |
| 21:58 |
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pdurbin |
:) |
| 21:58 |
|
pdurbin |
yeah, exactly |
