| Time |
S |
Nick |
Message |
| 01:54 |
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| 07:47 |
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| 08:09 |
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| 10:54 |
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| 11:09 |
|
pulsar |
anyone using jodd in production? |
| 11:10 |
|
pdurbin |
searchbot: lucky java jodd |
| 11:10 |
|
searchbot |
pdurbin: http://jodd.org/ |
| 11:11 |
|
pulsar |
starting a new gig next week and refreshing up on current frameworks |
| 11:11 |
|
pdurbin |
pulsar: you should add some to https://github.com/pdurbin/addressbookmvc/tree/master/examples |
| 11:12 |
|
pulsar |
not sure i will have that much time for evaluation |
| 11:12 |
|
pulsar |
but if i do, i will open a pr |
| 11:12 |
|
pdurbin |
cool |
| 11:12 |
|
pdurbin |
pulsar: what else are you looking at? |
| 11:12 |
|
pulsar |
had a look at spark too |
| 11:13 |
|
pulsar |
very lightweight, which i like |
| 11:13 |
|
pulsar |
but i fear it will be too light for the usecase |
| 11:14 |
|
pulsar |
so wicket, play and spring-mvc are my current favorites. mostly because they are mature and are used widely in production and not because they do something really fancy |
| 11:14 |
|
pulsar |
(in no particular order) |
| 11:14 |
|
pulsar |
perhaps grails |
| 11:15 |
|
pdurbin |
pulsar: Play from Java instead of Scala? |
| 11:15 |
|
pulsar |
s/from/for? |
| 11:15 |
|
pdurbin |
buh. using Java |
| 11:16 |
|
pdurbin |
I think Play supports both. which are you using? |
| 11:16 |
|
pulsar |
none of it yet :) |
| 11:16 |
|
pulsar |
but if i do, i will most likely go with java |
| 11:16 |
|
pdurbin |
ok |
| 11:16 |
|
pdurbin |
pulsar: what about JSF? |
| 11:16 |
|
pulsar |
heavy |
| 11:17 |
|
pulsar |
lots of dependencies, you will usually end up using some *faces framework and curse and swear a lot as ui customizing requests come in |
| 11:18 |
|
pdurbin |
yeah. I wonder what sfisque thinks about JSF but I don't think he's awake yet |
| 12:23 |
|
pdurbin |
pulsar: have you looked at Ozark? https://github.com/pdurbin/addressbookmvc/tree/master/examples/ozark |
| 12:23 |
|
pulsar |
nope, not on my radar yet |
| 12:23 |
|
pulsar |
looking at spring-mvc template engines at the moment. have been using that a lot in the past 10 years |
| 12:23 |
|
pdurbin |
https://ozark.java.net |
| 12:24 |
|
pulsar |
but usually with the default jsp template engine (+jstl) |
| 12:24 |
|
pulsar |
so very oldschool |
| 12:24 |
|
pulsar |
handlebars / mustache + spring mvc looks nice |
| 12:24 |
|
pulsar |
and would fit into the angular toolstack on the frontend quite well |
| 12:25 |
|
pulsar |
"The MVC API is layered on top of JAX-RS and integrates with existing EE technologies like CDI and BV." |
| 12:25 |
|
pulsar |
do not like the sound of it ;) |
| 12:25 |
|
pdurbin |
here I'm using mustache with Ozark: https://github.com/pdurbin/addressbookmvc/blob/master/examples/ozark/src/main/webapp/WEB-INF/views/list.mustache |
| 12:26 |
|
pulsar |
but then again, compared to the current state of spring... yeah, lets not go there. |
| 12:29 |
|
pdurbin |
pulsar: you don't like Bean Validation? |
| 12:29 |
|
pulsar |
depends, not against it. |
| 12:29 |
|
pulsar |
but usually the validation for complex aplications it not that easy |
| 12:29 |
|
pdurbin |
yeah |
| 12:30 |
|
pdurbin |
pulsar: and you don't like CDI either? |
| 12:30 |
|
pulsar |
and you end up mixing declarative and programmatic validation |
| 12:30 |
|
pulsar |
and cdi - hell yeah. |
| 12:30 |
|
pulsar |
not saying that these techologies suck |
| 12:30 |
|
pulsar |
just a bit worried about dependencies and stack size |
| 12:31 |
|
pdurbin |
sure. understandable |
| 12:41 |
|
pdurbin |
pulsar: you're worried Spark will be too lightweight though? In what way? |
| 12:41 |
|
pulsar |
i think spark would be great for restful apis |
| 12:42 |
|
pulsar |
my next gig will be about a shop system |
| 12:42 |
|
pulsar |
with lots of user interaction with the serverside models |
| 12:42 |
|
pulsar |
actions, workflows etc. |
| 12:42 |
|
pulsar |
so spark does not really care about these aspects |
| 12:42 |
|
pulsar |
other frameworks do |
| 12:43 |
|
pulsar |
like some soft of <button action="controller.foo()"> integration style. |
| 12:43 |
|
pulsar |
not rocket science |
| 12:43 |
|
pulsar |
but nice if an application framwork does a good job providing that kind of binding |
| 12:43 |
|
pdurbin |
shop system? an online store like amazon? |
| 12:43 |
|
pulsar |
kinda, more b2b, but yeah. |
| 12:44 |
|
pdurbin |
are you going to build the HTML on the server side or the client side? |
| 12:44 |
|
pulsar |
most likely serverside as the clients might use effed up browsers |
| 12:45 |
|
pulsar |
(namely ie7) |
| 12:45 |
|
pdurbin |
heh. safer that way I guess |
| 12:45 |
|
pulsar |
yeah, with some angular components here and there |
| 12:45 |
|
pulsar |
but most of the stuff has to be rendered and processed by the server |
| 12:46 |
|
pulsar |
so basically all nice to have and non essential features could run in the browser and access the backend via rest |
| 12:46 |
|
pulsar |
but the essential stuff has to be static |
| 12:46 |
|
pdurbin |
degrade gracefully |
| 12:46 |
|
pulsar |
as in static html, form/post driven |
| 12:47 |
|
pulsar |
yup |
| 12:47 |
|
pulsar |
so in the market of picking a framework for that. and here we go again: play, spring-mvc, wicket |
| 12:48 |
|
pdurbin |
aditsu uses wicket |
| 12:48 |
|
pdurbin |
a friend of mine likes Play but with Scala |
| 12:48 |
|
pulsar |
how much does he bitch an moan about that? :) |
| 12:48 |
|
pdurbin |
the loves it to pieces |
| 12:48 |
|
pdurbin |
s/the/he/ |
| 12:48 |
|
pulsar |
huh |
| 12:49 |
|
pdurbin |
I know, right |
| 12:49 |
|
pulsar |
yeah, i might give that a chance then. wicket development seems a bit slow lately |
| 12:49 |
|
pulsar |
or perhaps i am imagining things |
| 12:49 |
|
pulsar |
let me check the changelogs |
| 12:49 |
|
pdurbin |
I haven't really looked at Spring. |
| 12:50 |
|
pulsar |
well. its spring. it works and is well designed in terms of "lack of effups" |
| 12:50 |
|
pulsar |
but you need to hit debugger once in any web controller to see what is wrong with spring |
| 12:51 |
|
pulsar |
piles and piles of proxies, delegates and interceptors in the call stack |
| 12:52 |
|
pdurbin |
sounds fun |
| 12:52 |
|
pulsar |
so pretty much on the opposide end of the "lightweight" range |
| 12:52 |
|
pulsar |
heh |
| 12:52 |
|
pulsar |
opposite side |
| 12:52 |
|
pulsar |
nice typo. |
| 12:52 |
|
pdurbin |
:) |
| 12:52 |
|
pdurbin |
yeah, go with Spark |
| 12:52 |
|
pulsar |
and implement form <-> controller action bindings myself? not so sure |
| 12:53 |
|
pdurbin |
heh |
| 13:19 |
|
aditsu |
wicket is great :) |
| 13:23 |
|
pdurbin |
pulsar: toldya |
| 13:32 |
|
pulsar |
aditsu: and the development still active? |
| 13:33 |
|
aditsu |
I think so, they released a new major version recently |
| 13:33 |
|
pulsar |
6.9 released in 2013 |
| 13:34 |
|
pulsar |
7.0 2015 |
| 13:34 |
|
pulsar |
hmmm |
| 13:34 |
|
pulsar |
and 2014 spent for 7.0 milestones / release candidates |
| 13:34 |
|
pulsar |
http://archive.apache.org/dist/wicket/?C=M;O=A |
| 13:34 |
|
pulsar |
does not sound that dead / stalled to me. |
| 13:36 |
|
aditsu |
pulsar: there's also 6.10 ... 6.20 |
| 13:36 |
|
pulsar |
yeah, had the sorting order wrong |
| 13:37 |
|
aditsu |
they are moving a bit too fast for me :p |
| 13:38 |
|
pulsar |
uh.. i have been doing tapestry once. compared to that wicket seems rock solid |
| 13:38 |
|
pulsar |
api-wise |
| 13:38 |
|
pulsar |
at the first glance |
| 13:39 |
|
pulsar |
... which appears to be pretty much dead |
| 13:53 |
|
pdurbin |
Solr moves too fast for me to keep up. That's fast enough. :) |
| 14:52 |
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