| Time |
S |
Nick |
Message |
| 07:19 |
|
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neversleepz joined ##friendlyjava |
| 09:16 |
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alephnull_ joined ##friendlyjava |
| 14:02 |
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kon joined ##friendlyjava |
| 16:57 |
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alephnull_ joined ##friendlyjava |
| 17:20 |
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firebird1 joined ##friendlyjava |
| 17:23 |
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mr_lou joined ##friendlyjava |
| 17:35 |
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root66 joined ##friendlyjava |
| 17:35 |
|
mr_lou |
Ohoy root66 :) |
| 17:35 |
|
root66 |
Hi, is it possible to pack an exe in an applet which gets extracted and executed? I swear it's not for something malicious. |
| 17:37 |
|
* mr_lou |
doesn't know |
| 17:37 |
|
mr_lou |
Never done any applets saly. |
| 17:37 |
|
mr_lou |
*sadly. |
| 17:37 |
|
mr_lou |
Always wanted to, but never got that far. |
| 17:48 |
|
mr_lou |
root66, There's also a #java channel on EsperNet. |
| 17:48 |
|
mr_lou |
I see nothing there about not being allowed to talk about applets in the topic. |
| 17:50 |
|
firebird1 |
applet soooo 20's |
| 17:51 |
|
mr_lou |
Applets are still used a lot. |
| 17:51 |
|
mr_lou |
The only annoying part about them nowadays is that you have to sign them with an expensive certificate, just like you need to do with MIDlets (if you want to get rid of the security popups). |
| 17:52 |
|
firebird1 |
i never used them |
| 17:53 |
|
root66 |
ok thanks |
| 17:54 |
|
mr_lou |
I use an applet every time I need to log on to my netbank. |
| 17:54 |
|
mr_lou |
Or other government services. |
| 17:55 |
|
mr_lou |
It will (of course) be replaced with Javascript in the future, but most things will. |
| 17:56 |
|
mr_lou |
root66, And now you know why someone felt we needed a ##friendlyjava channel. ;-) |
| 17:56 |
|
mr_lou |
root66, You lasted longer than most before they kicked you. |
| 17:56 |
|
root66 |
that's why I like efnet |
| 17:56 |
|
root66 |
I an an oper and I can abuse my powers |
| 17:57 |
|
root66 |
but I enver need to because they see my custom host and kiss my ass |
| 17:57 |
|
root66 |
but unfortunately I couldn't get an answer there |
| 17:57 |
|
mr_lou |
There's a #java channel on efnet too? |
| 17:57 |
|
root66 |
yeah |
| 17:57 |
|
mr_lou |
Indeed. |
| 17:58 |
|
mr_lou |
More friendly than the one here on freenode? |
| 17:58 |
|
root66 |
everything about efnet = more friendly but less knowledgable |
| 17:58 |
|
root66 |
freenode channels are all founded by people who were such assholes that no one wanted them around |
| 17:58 |
|
root66 |
which isn't to say that they aren't some of the smartest people |
| 17:58 |
|
root66 |
they are just assholes |
| 17:58 |
|
mr_lou |
I'm not sure they know a whole lot in #java here on freenode either. |
| 17:59 |
|
root66 |
like, in the beginning, every freenode coding channel was founded after a schism in an efnet channel, pretty much |
| 17:59 |
|
root66 |
ops fight, someone gets mad and goes to freenode |
| 17:59 |
|
mr_lou |
Well, we can certainly agree that there's a general arrogant attitude in channel ##java. Always has been. |
| 17:59 |
|
mr_lou |
lol |
| 18:02 |
|
mr_lou |
But I've been looking for a friendly java channel for a long time. |
| 18:03 |
|
mr_lou |
Always liked Java a lot, but it hasn't been easy maintaining that interest when all you get is a bunch of arrogant replies. |
| 18:04 |
|
mr_lou |
Of course, it doesn't make it any easier that my interest is often very niche. |
| 18:04 |
|
mr_lou |
For example, at the moment I'm experienting with Blu-ray Disc Java. :-> |
| 18:04 |
|
mr_lou |
*experimenting |
| 18:04 |
|
mr_lou |
Just a hobby. |
| 18:05 |
|
firebird1 |
pdurbin, hey |
| 18:06 |
|
firebird1 |
mr_lou, its nice you could talk alone |
| 18:13 |
|
mr_lou |
root66, Quiet in efnet #java though. |
| 18:22 |
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alephnull_ joined ##friendlyjava |
| 18:35 |
|
mr_lou |
Hello alephnull_ |
| 18:36 |
|
alephnull_ |
Hey, Lou. |
| 18:36 |
|
alephnull_ |
Has Adrian been around today? |
| 18:36 |
|
firebird1 |
i cudnt find single decentirc |
| 18:37 |
|
mr_lou |
I only joined an hour ago, but the logs should help you. :-) |
| 18:43 |
|
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aditsu joined ##friendlyjava |
| 18:46 |
|
alephnull_ |
Hey, Adrian! |
| 18:47 |
|
alephnull_ |
CJam is pretty great, man. |
| 18:47 |
|
mr_lou |
Hey aditsu |
| 18:48 |
|
aditsu |
alephnull_: thanks :) |
| 18:48 |
|
aditsu |
mr_lou: hi |
| 19:19 |
|
alephnull_ |
aditsu: How do you feel about `b` having a (String, Number) signature? |
| 19:19 |
|
alephnull_ |
I quite like the look of "ff"16b, for instance. |
| 19:26 |
|
mr_lou |
Movie time. See ya. |
| 19:27 |
|
aditsu |
alephnull_: that would break compatibility; for now you can do "FF":~Gb |
| 19:27 |
|
aditsu |
I plan to add a hex conversion op later |
| 19:28 |
|
alephnull_ |
aditsu: All right, then. |
| 19:29 |
|
alephnull_ |
At present, it's not possible to place a block in a variable and later retrieve it onto the stack. Is that intentional? |
| 19:29 |
|
alephnull_ |
That is, {+}:D;D doesn't work. |
| 19:30 |
|
aditsu |
it works, but it executes it :p |
| 19:30 |
|
alephnull_ |
Ah, that's unexpected. |
| 19:30 |
|
aditsu |
golfscript does that too |
| 19:31 |
|
alephnull_ |
Should it? |
| 19:31 |
|
aditsu |
I could add an option to just get the block, but I'm not sure how useful it is |
| 19:32 |
|
* aditsu |
wonders if he should make a cjam channel |
| 19:33 |
|
alephnull_ |
Well, it would allow for the storage of "functions" for one, which is sure to come in handy. |
| 19:34 |
|
* alephnull_ |
is working on a Ruby interpreter for CJam. :P |
| 19:35 |
|
aditsu |
also you can do {D} to achieve something like that |
| 19:35 |
|
alephnull_ |
Ah, that works. |
| 19:36 |
|
aditsu |
the CJam doc is quite sparse, currently you need to go through all the source code to make a compatible interpreter |
| 19:37 |
|
aditsu |
I'll try to improve that.... when I have time |
| 19:38 |
|
alephnull_ |
Yes, I'm well aware. :) |
| 19:38 |
|
alephnull_ |
https://gist.github.com/threeifbywhiskey/9d47b4b16ee220334660 |
| 19:38 |
|
alephnull_ |
I've been going through and figuring out just how each operator works for the various stack signatures. |
| 19:39 |
|
aditsu |
maybe you can start with golfscript.rb and make changes |
| 19:39 |
|
alephnull_ |
golfscript.rb is a disgusting pile of spaghetti. |
| 19:39 |
|
aditsu |
oh ok, nevermind then :) |
| 19:39 |
|
alephnull_ |
CJam is sufficiently different that it makes more sense to just start from scratch. |
| 19:40 |
|
aditsu |
so why do you want a ruby interpreter anyway? |
| 19:41 |
|
alephnull_ |
For shits and giggles, really. |
| 19:41 |
|
aditsu |
alright :) |
| 19:41 |
|
alephnull_ |
I like implementing esolangs, and CJam is pretty fun. |
| 19:43 |
|
aditsu |
I just improved the j operator 1 or 2 days ago, it's pretty powerful now |
| 19:43 |
|
aditsu |
I should post something that uses it somewhere :p |
| 19:46 |
|
aditsu |
e.g. this is a recursive memoized fibonacci function: 2,{(_j\(j+}j (already working in 0.6.2) |
| 19:52 |
|
alephnull_ |
Is the GWT version 0.6.2? That program doesn't work in the Web interpreter. |
| 19:52 |
|
aditsu |
it works, but you need to give it a number first |
| 19:53 |
|
alephnull_ |
I'm derping all over the place today. |
| 19:53 |
|
alephnull_ |
That's pretty impressive. |
| 19:53 |
|
aditsu |
I wasn't very clear :p |
| 20:03 |
|
alephnull_ |
Do you suppose you could make the Web interface accept a program through a query parameter? |
| 20:06 |
|
aditsu |
it's on my todo list |
| 22:26 |
|
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alephnull_ joined ##friendlyjava |
| 22:26 |
|
alephnull_ |
aditsu: Any plans to add dictionaries to CJam? |
| 22:28 |
|
aditsu |
alephnull_: I thought about it, but haven't made any decision... one way would be to use simple arrays of arrays (pairs) and special operators |
| 22:29 |
|
alephnull_ |
Yes, they can be implemented in CJam as is. |
| 22:29 |
|
alephnull_ |
It's just that it'd be a bit more performant to have them supported natively. |
| 22:29 |
|
aditsu |
and shorter :p |
| 22:29 |
|
alephnull_ |
Always nice. :) |
| 22:30 |
|
alephnull_ |
I'm working on a brainfuck interpreter at the moment, and [0] 30000 * just isn't going to fly. |
| 22:30 |
|
alephnull_ |
I'm going to use a pseudo-hash for the tape, of the form ["t0" val "t1" val]. |
| 22:30 |
|
aditsu |
why not? |
| 22:31 |
|
aditsu |
I'd just use a flat array |
| 22:31 |
|
aditsu |
in fact I wrote an interpreter, but it's quite ugly because I don't have a "while" yet |
| 22:32 |
|
alephnull_ |
[0] 30000 * brings the Web interpreter to a crawl. |
| 22:32 |
|
aditsu |
and I got a bit stuck because brainfuck is not well defined, there are several incompatible variants |
| 22:33 |
|
alephnull_ |
Well, there's no sense in forgoing CJam's bignum support, so non-wrapping cells seems the way to go there. |
| 22:33 |
|
alephnull_ |
And "no change on EOF" is the most versatile answer to that question. |
| 22:46 |
|
aditsu |
alephnull_: here's one version of my interpreter: 0a3e4*:A;q:I;_"><+-.,[]"--'>/"AT):T=:U;"*'</"AT(:T=:U;"*'+/"ATU):Ut:A;"*'-/"ATU(:Ut:A;"*'./"Uco"*',/"I{I(i\:I;}W?:UAT t:A;"*'[/"Ug{{"*']/"U}g}*"*~ |
| 22:46 |
|
aditsu |
you need to put the brainfuck program as a string before it |
| 22:46 |
|
aditsu |
works with the hello world example from wikipedia |
| 22:47 |
|
alephnull_ |
Is it supposed to take quite a while to run? |
| 22:48 |
|
alephnull_ |
I tried it with ",." prepended. |
| 22:48 |
|
aditsu |
takes about 1-2 sec for hello world here |
| 22:48 |
|
aditsu |
",." took about the same time |
| 22:49 |
|
aditsu |
but outputted a square :p I should probably give it some input |
| 22:49 |
|
aditsu |
ah better, it outputs the first character |
| 22:51 |
|
alephnull_ |
I can't get it to do anything for some reason. :/ |
| 22:52 |
|
aditsu |
the full code I'm using: ",."0a3e4*:A;q:I;_"><+-.,[]"--'>/"AT):T=:U;"*'</"AT(:T=:U;"*'+/"ATU):Ut:A;"*'-/"ATU(:Ut:A;"*'./"Uco"*',/"I{I(i\:I;}W?:UATt:A;"*'[/"Ug{{"*']/"U}g}*"*~ |
| 22:52 |
|
aditsu |
input foo, output f |
| 22:54 |
|
alephnull_ |
Very strange. |
| 22:54 |
|
alephnull_ |
Aside from that, do you not suppose that blocks should operate on their own private copies of the stack at their call sites? |
| 22:56 |
|
aditsu |
no, that would be quite inefficient |
| 23:02 |
|
aditsu |
alephnull_: what cpu and browser are you using? |
| 23:03 |
|
alephnull_ |
I ran it using the Java interpreter. |
| 23:03 |
|
aditsu |
oh, maybe it's still waiting for input then :p you need a ctrl+d (or ctrl+z in windoze) at the end |
| 23:04 |
|
aditsu |
I was testing online |
| 23:05 |
|
alephnull_ |
Ah, yep, it was my not sending EOF... |
| 23:05 |
|
aditsu |
if I add "read single character" to CJam, it will help with bf input |
| 23:05 |
|
alephnull_ |
{s'=+"{0="\+'}+~=1=}:H; |
| 23:06 |
|
alephnull_ |
I think this is a pretty solid definition for pseudo-Hash lookups on nested arrays, but I can't figure out how to handle the case of a nonexistent key. |
| 23:08 |
|
aditsu |
how do you use it? |
| 23:09 |
|
alephnull_ |
[[1 2] [3 4] [5 6]] 5 H will leave a six on the stack. |
| 23:11 |
|
aditsu |
interesting.. but it feels like there should be a better way |
| 23:12 |
|
aditsu |
maybe I'm missing + on blocks |
| 23:12 |
|
alephnull_ |
Block composition would certainly be very useful. |
| 23:13 |
|
aditsu |
this works: {\{0=1$=},0=1=\;}:H; |
| 23:14 |
|
aditsu |
oh better: {\{0=1$=}=1=\;}:H; |
| 23:15 |
|
alephnull_ |
Nice. |
| 23:16 |
|
alephnull_ |
Could List Block = return a failure value? |
| 23:17 |
|
aditsu |
check the discussion at http://sourceforge.net/p/cjam/tickets/4/ |
| 23:18 |
|
aditsu |
with # you can get the index, which is -1 if not found |
| 23:19 |
|
alephnull_ |
Yeah, I suppose that works. |
| 23:19 |
|
aditsu |
needs a copy of the array and indexed access, but you can handle a missing key |
| 23:19 |
|
alephnull_ |
More stack juggling involved, though. |
| 23:20 |
|
aditsu |
there's also the question of what H should return |
| 23:20 |
|
alephnull_ |
The value paired with the key is the only logical response, I would think. |
| 23:20 |
|
aditsu |
and if the key is missing? |
| 23:20 |
|
alephnull_ |
dict[key] returns the value in every language I've used, anyhow. |
| 23:20 |
|
alephnull_ |
Ah, true, that is a problem. |
| 23:21 |
|
alephnull_ |
CJam doesn't have anything akin to null or undefined, as far as I'm aware. |
| 23:21 |
|
aditsu |
right |
| 23:59 |
|
alephnull_ |
aditsu: Quickmap and quickfold ought to be able to take a block, don't you think? |
