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IRC log for #virtualJUG, 2017-07-12

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12:41 Topic for #virtualJUG is now Welcome to the Virtual JUG - http://virtualJUG.com. IRC logs can be found here -> http://irclog.greptilian.com/virtualJUG/today
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15:57 shelajev hello people!
15:57 waickem hi!
15:57 shelajev Simons are online, so we're gonna start in a couple of minutes
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15:58 waickem great, thank you
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15:58 sjmaple hello wonderful vJUG people :D
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15:58 hernan hola
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15:59 waickem hey :)
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15:59 rattlesnakeshake Howdy! ;-)
15:59 MariusQuadflieg Hi
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16:00 RJM Bonjour
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16:00 pkhera namaste!!
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16:01 shelajev and we're live1
16:01 shelajev please refresh the page if the video is not loading
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16:02 mishugana 'sup?
16:02 patix hi
16:02 francisB Hi all
16:02 shelajev and the cog icon on the youtube video to increase the quality if it isn't hd
16:02 Innocuousone Not able to hear anything how about others
16:02 RJM can hear fine
16:02 Guest30447 all good for me
16:02 mishugana No audio problems here
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16:03 mishugana @speakjava Your JDK9 module talk was excellent
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16:04 shelajev here's the link to the webinar page: https://zeroturnaround.com/webinar/java-9-webinar/
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16:05 shelajev @Innocuousone, please refresh the page see if it fixes it
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16:05 mishugana Simon, you started working when I was busy getting born - you don't look that old! :-)
16:05 shelajev maybe the youtube video volume is 0 :) I sometimes find myself like that :D
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16:06 Innocuousone Is the volume down
16:06 mishugana JIgsaw should have had versioning. :(
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16:12 dummkopf can anybody see this?
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16:12 doddi @dummkopf yes I see
16:12 dummkopf great... thanks!
16:13 dummkopf I wish they had pushed versioning into Jigsaw from the very beginning
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16:14 dummkopf The module format is also too similar to the package format - new users will get severely confused
16:14 shelajev what's the best way to use jlink not to build images that won't run properly, like forgetting the instrumentation and thus disabling all monitoring tools, etc
16:14 shelajev what's the best way to use jlink not to build images that won't run properly, like forgetting the instrumentation and thus disabling all monitoring tools, etc ?
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16:14 shelajev sorry :) slack habits, no edit in IRC
16:14 dummkopf LOL
16:15 Keziah dummkopf do you know if they are planning to add versioning in the future?
16:15 dummkopf Some sources say they might... but I am pretty sure they won
16:15 dummkopf won't ... once it's released, they won't bother changing it much I suppose
16:15 sjmaple they say they will in the future
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16:16 sjmaple but yeh, once something has been released, it's all too easy to move on to something else
16:16 sjmaple ValueTypes... etc
16:16 sjmaple depends how many people adopt modularity
16:16 dummkopf true
16:17 dummkopf Despite all the backwards compatibility efforts, I have a suspicion that a lot of folks will have trouble grokking the module system
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16:18 dummkopf especially with all the special cases to make it work with older code
16:18 shelajev but now it's not an issue that much
16:18 shelajev classpath works as expected
16:18 dummkopf One big feature I can't wait for is Pattern Matching
16:18 dummkopf Anybody try that out in the JDK 9 builds?
16:18 shelajev mostly, you need to --add-module random-stuff
16:18 dummkopf That's what I mean -- too many flags for too many special cases!
16:18 shelajev pattern matching in jdk 9?
16:19 shelajev but you just add all modules and voila, no?
16:19 shelajev 1 additional line
16:19 dummkopf Yup... they had released a tweet on that a couple of days back
16:19 dummkopf I haven't had a chance to try it out yet
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16:19 dummkopf I think Brian Goetz was working on that?
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16:20 dummkopf shelajev No doubt, but a lot of "corporate" folk are still stuck on JDK 6 :D ... and 7 and 8 didn't make such fundamental changes as 9 is doing! :-)
16:21 shelajev that's just lack of momentum, they probably won't upgrade now to java 7
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16:21 dummkopf Hahaha...
16:21 shelajev they'd wait as much as they can and then go to the current release
16:21 shelajev I hope
16:21 dummkopf ^
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16:21 dummkopf dropWhile and takeWhile are nice
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16:21 dummkopf but I wish they brought back the "zip" operation! I really miss that
16:22 shelajev really, why? :)
16:22 dummkopf apparently the older implementation wasn't safe?
16:22 dummkopf shelajev about zip?
16:22 shelajev yeah
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16:22 Guest23355 What zip operation?
16:22 dummkopf I mean we already have "chain", and that's nice,
16:22 shelajev whenever I see zipped streams I really struggle with the code
16:22 dummkopf but to move along two streams in lockstep, it's very inconvenient today!
16:22 shelajev and then I think that 6 month later it'd be even more confusing
16:23 dummkopf For example, even a simple example like - something like "zip [1..] ['a'..'z']" in Haskell, to get the index and character value together
16:23 shelajev yeah, I know the theory :) but in practice the code with zips always confuses me
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16:23 dummkopf Right now, I have to use IntStream and then index into my data structure
16:23 dummkopf I hate doing that
16:24 dummkopf Indeed.... I think they dropped the zip impl because it was not stable? Didn't work well with parallel streams? Not sure
16:24 dummkopf but they did use to have some version and it got removed :|
16:25 dummkopf I mean, Java is actually fun again with streams and lambdas... we should have more of this stuff! :-)
16:25 psoares err... what happens if you map a huge file (bigger than the available memory) ?
16:25 dummkopf laziness FTW!
16:25 dummkopf :D
16:26 dummkopf This JEP 238 - more complexity for what ROI? I don't know...
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16:26 sjmaple it's a horrible feature
16:27 dummkopf Yeah... sounds like a crutch
16:27 dummkopf I love JShell... who else? :D
16:27 sjmaple o/
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16:28 dummkopf I use it instead of the documentation now... LOL
16:28 dummkopf tab-completion is sweet in JShell
16:28 sjmaple do you find it slow at times?
16:28 dummkopf Startup has become very slow on macOS :(
16:28 dummkopf once started, it seems to be okay
16:28 dummkopf one Linux and Win, startup is blazingly fast!
16:29 sjmaple Heinz has a great video where he talks about the performance actually
16:29 dummkopf link?
16:29 sjmaple he compares with python :D
16:29 dummkopf Indeed... with stronger type inference, Java would be as pleasurable as Python! ;-)
16:29 sjmaple http://thejavaspecialists.com/tutorials/008-JShell-new-Java-9-REPL-for-Interactive-Hacking.html
16:29 doddi you mean groovy^ :-)
16:30 dummkopf Thanks... will check it out!
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16:30 sjmaple np
16:30 sjmaple he also uses some really interesting startup flags that I wasn't aware of
16:30 dummkopf For JShell specifically?
16:30 sjmaple yep
16:30 sjmaple like PRINTING
16:30 sjmaple that allows you to just say print()
16:31 sjmaple rather that System.ou....
16:31 dummkopf Aha
16:31 dummkopf and also on the page - we can use it like a *Nix script using the shebang line... nice!
16:31 sjmaple it does it in a very dumb way, just by adding loads of methods for each type that calls through :)
16:31 dummkopf I didn't know about that
16:31 sjmaple yes!
16:32 sjmaple although it does give an error, but hey
16:32 sjmaple you can ignore that
16:32 dummkopf Hmmm
16:32 dummkopf That definitely looks worth a try...
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16:33 dummkopf Man, what is going on with this Concurrency update? Sound terribly boring... lhaha
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16:36 sjmaple undeprecated! :)
16:36 Christor reprecated
16:37 dummkopf JEP 213 - initially I thought Oracle was now in the Bitcoin business... :P
16:37 dummkopf That underscore is probably to make Pattern Matching work
16:37 dummkopf I mean making it reserved
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16:38 sjmaple I think it's in lambdas with params the aren't used...
16:38 dummkopf I think you're right... I just saw the slide now
16:39 shelajev I lost the audio, anyone else?
16:39 doddi ok here
16:39 sjmaple works for me
16:39 dummkopf Interestingly, it is also proposed for pattern matching (if it ever comes into fruition) - http://cr.openjdk.java.net/~briangoetz/amber/pattern-match.html
16:40 dummkopf is the relevant JEP... interesting read!
16:40 dummkopf especially the destructuring in the "case" expressions looks very promisng
16:40 sjmaple most importantly though.... change your var names to __ (double underscore) ;o)
16:40 dummkopf Hahaha
16:40 sjmaple *joke stolen from @shelajev*
16:41 dummkopf indeed.. I believe Clojure had some issues with this IIRC
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16:41 shelajev what joke?
16:41 sjmaple :)
16:42 shelajev ok, I'm back!
16:43 dummkopf Meh... Java should probably have stuck with UTF-8 throughout...
16:44 tigger Seems I've lost connection...
16:44 dummkopf to the video?
16:44 sjmaple try a page refresh.
16:45 dummkopf Does anybody actually use JavaFX (serious question)?
16:45 sjmaple not least because I want to see tigger bounce :)
16:45 dummkopf LOL
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16:45 doddi my last place used JavaFX
16:45 dummkopf Interesting!
16:46 tigger both video and audio
16:46 dummkopf Are they still using it? It looks like a much improved version of Swing, but new data even on the Oracle site appears scarce
16:46 doddi yes they are still using it, much better than swing in my opinion
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16:47 doddi Im not too familiar with swing though
16:47 sjmaple tigger: any better?
16:47 dummkopf Yes... the architecture looks much better too
16:47 dummkopf it's a pity news about it is so hard to come by
16:47 doddi only issue is any updates to the gui have to be done on the gui thread... its easy to make this mistake
16:47 tigger quit and rejoined, better now. thanks
16:47 sjmaple cool!
16:48 dummkopf It uses an Event Loop too?
16:48 dummkopf Tempted to try it out, but wondering at the ROI honestly... since it's quite an investment in time, right?
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16:49 dummkopf <<brb>>
16:49 doddi it seems to be, I wasnt an active developer on it. Its also not used often so like you say ROI might be an issue. http://fxexperience.com is a useful link
16:49 KG Connection broke please help
16:50 sjmaple pls refresh your browser tab
16:52 Guest65364 Not able to access
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16:53 sjmaple try the direct youtube link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Y6BV6WXCGI
16:53 Guest65364 Ok thanks got it
16:53 sjmaple great!
16:54 sjmaple interesting the vJUG page didn't work. We just embed that youtube video :)
16:54 dummkopf Thanks for the link, doddi. Will check it out!
16:54 jdlee those javadocs are awesome
16:54 dummkopf Hahah... I agree with Simon... the search box is superb
16:54 jdlee i hope they backport that to 8. we'll be stuck on that for.ev.er. :)
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16:55 dummkopf jdlee one can only hope! :D
16:55 jdlee "It's open source!" hehe
16:55 dummkopf If Java becomes more open, some of us should be able to do it for them!
16:55 dummkopf Hahahaha!
16:55 dummkopf Rust has a pretty nice CSS + JS template for their documentation
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16:56 dummkopf you get the same searchable doc for every project  - we could do something like that!
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16:56 dummkopf Btw, jvisualvm is gone too, isn't it?
16:57 dummkopf I believe jconsole is still there in 9 though
16:57 sjmaple any questions for Simon?
16:57 Guest65364 Gone again, youtube link also not working, seems network issues
16:58 dummkopf yes, when is Azul going to go open source? ;-)
16:58 dummkopf hahaha...
16:58 a3rpHa i will need to watch that video again ....
16:58 shelajev so, what's the deal with applets, we can still use them in jdk9, right?
16:59 sjmaple http://bit.ly/AZULJDK9
16:59 dummkopf shelajev Man, I had forgotten about those entirely!
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17:02 dummkopf sjmaple @Simon Where can we get more info about the LLVM project? That sounds terribly interesting
17:02 doddi is jigsaws sole benefit for embedded devices with small footprint?
17:02 shelajev https://llvm.org/ <- LLVM
17:02 Scooter https://visualvm.github.io/
17:02 dummkopf Thanks, shelajev!
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17:03 dummkopf Oh... spoken too soon... does that link include the Java project?
17:03 dummkopf I mean, there was some presentation by some teams on an LLVM backend for Java, not sure if Simon's talking about the same project?
17:04 dummkopf Thanks, sjmaple, simon, shelajev!
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17:04 dev_ratcliff thanks all
17:04 dummkopf How do we keep up to date on these sessions?
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17:04 shelajev meetup.com/virtualjug
17:05 dummkopf Okay, got it. Thanks, shelajev
17:05 shelajev <- register, join our meetup, and you'll get the notifications and everything
17:05 a3rpHa thank you Simon and every one !!!!!!!!11
17:05 scottce Very informative, thanks
17:05 khanium Thank you for the presentation! great meetup!
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17:05 dummkopf Excellent... registered!
17:07 dummkopf Thank you all!
17:07 dummkopf Adios
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17:09 MrHanachoo Since java became non blocking, comparing it with NodeJS on performance, which one is better?
17:09 shelajev see you all later! :D
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