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IRC log for #openknot, 2015-07-25

Open Knot Communications Platform - https://github.com/openknot

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time S Nick Message
02:17 dotplus the way I see it is this: pdurbin sends an email, using thunderbird, outlook or even telnet, to a special address. The MTA receiving the message pumps it into a message queue (i.e. the router mentioned earlier, rabbitmq or something custom in circuits or anything else). *Lots* of other things can be subscribed to that message queue. Examples: my IRC bot (which forwards the message to a specified (channel|user) on a specified network), my XMPP ...
02:18 dotplus ... bot (which forwards the message to a specified JID), the archiver (which is subscribed to everything), etc.
02:25 dotplus this is not the conceptually challenging part, although there are fair number of moving parts. I think the hard parts are a) ensuring that replies get to the correct "thread" originator b) discoverability of interestingness
02:35 pdurbin dotplus: sure, going from email to IRC seems easy enough. I'm just fuzzy on how the opposite would work.
03:21 prologic sorry just got back
03:21 prologic catching up
03:21 prologic <pdurbin> and would I be able to reply to that email via IRC? <-- sure why not?
03:22 prologic pdurbin> I thought maybe I'd talk to a bot in an IRC channel who would send a message to the email thread. Or something. :) <-- yeah the way I was thinking is that so-called email user agents would create a fake user in the irc-ish system
03:24 prologic think of how a lot of us use email now
03:24 prologic when we're busy and time stricken
03:24 prologic we just say a short thing and hit send
03:25 prologic I do like the idea of the "router" and "archiver" though
03:25 prologic I should ensure I prototype that out in my design
03:25 prologic so the "IRC" side of it just "plugs" in to that
03:25 prologic re web interface; I'll build a prototype of that too (viewer)
09:09 prologic so I'll need an email server/gateway (easy enough)
09:09 prologic for that special email address
09:09 prologic an irc server (got one!)
09:09 prologic and a way to broker/inject messages from both sources into Redis
09:09 prologic for consumption/subscription by other agents/clients
09:09 prologic in this case a web ui
11:12 pdurbin prologic: can you say more about the fake users? "so-called email user agents would create a fake user in the irc-ish system"
11:41 prologic I guess the first time someone emails the system
11:41 prologic we can create an entity for them
11:42 prologic and they appear in the group channel
11:42 prologic emails they send to the list will appear in all places
11:42 prologic and we can reply as well and they'll get email responses back
11:43 pdurbin oh, a fake IRC user for someone who emailed the system but didn't explicitly join IRC
11:43 prologic yeah
11:43 prologic if later on they decide they want to communicate in more real-0time
11:43 prologic they can either use an irc client
11:43 pdurbin emails would appear in IRC? the whole message?! or just the subject and a few words?
11:43 prologic the web interface
11:43 prologic or any other client
11:44 prologic and claim their identify that was creaetd for them
11:44 prologic the whole message
11:44 prologic we may have to truncate for longer messages though and link to the whole message
11:44 prologic but conversation based
11:44 prologic it's how we communicate right? :)
11:44 pdurbin yep
11:45 pdurbin but how would one reply from IRC to one email thread or the other?
11:45 prologic I for one hate reading long speils of emails
11:45 prologic I tend to just glance over and ignore :)
11:46 prologic I guess what we *can* do there is this
11:46 prologic say a user emails the group with some subject
11:46 prologic we can intelligent create a topic/channel out of that initial email
11:46 prologic and users on IRC say can join that channel and participate in that conversation
11:47 pdurbin I had that thought as well, that perhaps an email thread maps to a separate IRC channel. But I wasn't sure this was a good thought. :)
11:48 prologic no I think it makes total sense
11:48 prologic I think the idea for me here is to keep everything as a stream of messages/events
11:48 prologic and keep the conversations flowing smoothly and easily
11:49 prologic we can probably do things like have special markers that users can put in the subject lines of emails
11:49 prologic [thing]: topic
11:49 prologic where thing becomes #thing
11:49 prologic and topic becomes the automatically set topic of the channel
11:49 prologic but in the absence of any useful parable info there
11:49 prologic we'd have to use a bit of nltk/callais
11:54 pdurbin would this work here on freenode? is that a design goal? or would it have to be a custom IRC server?
11:56 prologic it would be a lot harder to do on an existing IRC server instnace
11:56 prologic because of rules and polocies and what not
11:57 prologic but a subset of the functionality could be made to work with bots instead
11:57 prologic probably not the channel/topic creation part
11:57 prologic well maybe
12:00 pdurbin if you reply via IRC are you replying to the initial email that started the thread? or are you replying to the most recent message? I'm just wondering how it would look if later I go back and look at the conversation with a email client that shows a threaded view.
12:05 prologic probably most recent message
12:06 prologic dunno
12:06 prologic maybe we can do both?
12:06 pdurbin I tend to prefer flat (Discourse, Stack Overflow) over threaded (Hacker News, Reddit) anyway.
12:08 prologic yeah ok
12:09 prologic perhaps in that case it can be controlled by user preference
12:09 prologic whethery if they receive emails to be flat or threaded
12:10 pdurbin Slashdot had (has?) the choice between flat and nested.
12:11 pdurbin many email clients give you a choice too
12:23 pdurbin When a new channel gets created, do you have to explictly join it? Or are you sucked in somehow when it gets created? (I don't think I've ever seen this in IRC.)
12:48 prologic You actually can be sucked in
12:48 pdurbin !
12:48 prologic I happen to have written a few ircds and services and manage a couple of networks in the past :)
12:48 prologic clients can be "force joined"
12:50 pdurbin kinda disturbing. I would hope it wouldn't have focus at least, the channel I got sucked into
12:50 prologic try it :)
12:50 prologic /server daisy.shortcircuit.net.au 7000
12:52 pdurbin "Welcome to the BitlBee gateway!"
12:52 prologic err
12:52 prologic don't forget the 7000 on the end?
12:52 prologic that's my private bitlebee gateway on the default port :P
12:55 pdurbin buh. IRC is hard. not sure why I can't connect. but I believe you, prologic
12:56 prologic ahh nevermind
12:56 prologic might just be my sucky firewall
12:56 prologic :)
13:02 pdurbin Oh, I was thinking about how via email it would be annoyingly noisy to have people reply to a list with "+1" but this would be fine in an IRC channel that represents a thread. This idea is in http://murmur.csail.mit.edu
13:05 pdurbin as a way to say "I like this thread but I have nothing to say right now"
13:07 prologic yeah
13:08 pdurbin when people answer questions for me on Twitter I figure giving them a star is enough of a thank you :)
13:10 pdurbin It's sort of hard to believe that both email and IRC are so old but no one has ever built any integration between them.
13:13 pdurbin bear: is there any integration between email and XMPP?
13:16 prologic heh
13:17 pdurbin maybe it's unholy :)
13:17 prologic maybe we're buliding the 3rd system
13:17 prologic :)
13:18 pdurbin third system effect? :)
13:22 prologic heh
13:46 prologic okay
13:46 prologic I just completed what I think is the first part to this
13:47 prologic the email broker side
13:47 prologic well okay let's not get ahead of ourselves
13:47 prologic I did my neck/shoulder in Friday so I'm quite sore/tired
13:47 prologic but basically I have a working custom smtp server
13:47 prologic that's ready to hook up to Redis+IRC
13:47 pdurbin nice!
13:49 prologic demo session: https://gist.github.com/66cc98205e1d63f57f33
13:50 pdurbin yep. looks like SMTP
13:53 prologic sure does :)
14:06 prologic going to benchmark this and go to bed
14:54 prologic https://github.com/openknot/broker
15:00 pdurbin +1
21:57 prologic it's interesting to note that when I cobbled together an smtp server
21:57 prologic that it's end format is quite similar to an irc message
21:57 prologic eventually I'll move the protocol parts back into circuits.protocols.smtp I think
21:58 prologic NB: I did not write that from scratch :) haha
21:58 prologic I borrowed all/most of the code from the Python std. liob :P
21:58 prologic just adapted for circuits
21:59 prologic :P
22:02 prologic so I think the next thing to do now is to get the messages/emails into Redis

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